Can a rich Church or man get into heaven?

[Greatest I am]

"All things are possible with God".

An un-provable statement and wrong as far as most Christians are concerned.

The Christian way of seeing God is to see Him screwing up heaven with evil.
Strike one.
They then see God screwing up man's beginning in Eden.
Strike two.
They then see God cleaning house in Noah's day with Genocide and starting over.
Strike three.
They now wait for His return at end time to clean house yet again.
Strike four.
Strike four?
God plays by His own rules I guess.
You and I both know that this view must be false.
God gets things right the first time and every time.
This is why He has not and will not return. His perfect systems are here today the same way that they were here in the beginning. It is just to us to see it. I do. Even with sin and evil and woes, all is perfect and humming along exactly as God wants it to. I call it perfection in evolution.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

None of the links you listed addressed what I actually said. I said "only a tiny percentage of Christian CLERGY are what could be honestly called rich". The links you listed only talk about the wealth of the vatican, not the average personal wealth of Christian clergy.

I have no access to IRS records.

If you believe that there are no rich priests then------

Regards
DL

 

[sojourner]

Am I missing something here? I don't see any "unless's" or "excepts" in the OP quotations. It seems to me the Bible is pretty clear on this point. Riches are a barrier to salvation. Christians are enjoined to give away their wealth and lay up their riches in heaven, not on Earth. Christians should be in, but not of, the world. They're not supposed to be leading ordinary lives. They're supposed to be focused on heaven and indifferent to earthly success. They're supposed to be perfectionists, "even as God" is perfect."

How is it that some devout Christians take certain Bible passages so literally, while so flagrantly rationalizing others when they contravene their own lifestyles?

Wealthy = detested of God. Riches prevent salvation. "God wrote it -- and there's an end on it!"

And yet, the Christian communities have always had rich people involved. Jesus was reported to have sat at table with many homeowners, who were able to provide banquets. Indeed, the earliest archaeological evidence we have of Xian communities is that of a centrally-located, large patron's home, around which other, smaller homes and businesses were situated, usually behind a wall.

I don't think it's particularly the amassing, use, or possession of wealth that's at issue, but the way in which that wealth is viewed and treated. Those who look to their money for status or salvation would be better off to get rid of it. But I know many wealthy people who are fine people and share much of it with others, for the benefit of the common good.

 

[Valjean]

And yet, the Christian communities have always had rich people involved. Jesus was reported to have sat at table with many homeowners, who were able to provide banquets. Indeed, the earliest archaeological evidence we have of Xian communities is that of a centrally-located, large patron's home, around which other, smaller homes and businesses were situated, usually behind a wall.

I don't think it's particularly the amassing, use, or possession of wealth that's at issue, but the way in which that wealth is viewed and treated. Those who look to their money for status or salvation would be better off to get rid of it. But I know many wealthy people who are fine people and share much of it with others, for the benefit of the common good.

So the Biblical passages denouncing wealth are misprints?

 

[logician]

So the Biblical passages denouncing wealth are misprints?

Yes, you will not find them in the latest "REVISED CAPITALIST VERSION" of the holy bible.

 

[keithnurse]

I have no access to IRS records.

If you believe that there are no rich priests then------

Regards
DL

Unlike you, I think accuracy and truth are important. Again, only a small percentage of Christian clergy (priests, ministers, etc) could be honestly called "wealthy". None of what you have said has addressed that, all you've done is take shots at the Vatican. If you are going to say the majority of Christian clergy are wealthy, where is your evidence? remember, I said "MAJORITY'

 

[hey_amigo]

churches do not enter heaven, but entities do. i am not certain of the conditions though.

 

[blackout]

churches do not enter heaven, but entities do. i am not certain of the conditions though.

Churches are the people that comprise (and compromise) them.

 

[Greatest I am]

Unlike you, I think accuracy and truth are important. Again, only a small percentage of Christian clergy (priests, ministers, etc) could be honestly called "wealthy". None of what you have said has addressed that, all you've done is take shots at the Vatican. If you are going to say the majority of Christian clergy are wealthy, where is your evidence? remember, I said "MAJORITY'

Proof is always hard to get but I can say for sure that they are fat. This shows that no priest or bishop is going hungry.

Regards
DL

 

[Breathe]

Proof is always hard to get but I can say for sure that they are fat. This shows that no priest or bishop is going hungry.

Regards
DL

Or they're not eating well?

 

[blackout]

I think you are missing the concept of God's blessings. You see, the more I give, the more blessings I receive.

Give it ALL away then! :bow: no?

JUST IMAGINE the blessings! :newyear:

 

[ayani]

Wow, I think this is the first time we agree.

Regards
DL

God bless you, dude. :flower2:

seek, and you will find.

 

[Enlighten]

G I A ~

i've long since ceased necessarily equating church or churches with living, fruitful, sincere Christian faith.

you're right- a lot of these churches are in it for money.

Jesus does say that we can't serve both money, and God. we either love and work for money, or we love and work for God even at the expense of money, still trusting Him to supply our needs, and provide for us. where these churches and leaders will stand when they face God at the end of their lives is up for God to know, and judge.

the most fun, blessed church meeting i've ever been to was at a believer's house. a whole bunch of us squeezed into her living room with a couple guitars, our Bibles, song books, and prayers. we all wanted to be there, and it was simple, edifying, and fun.

so far as Christian faith goes, discipleship isn't about money. it isn't about going to or belonging to a certain church (though it is good and right to gather with other believers). it's about knwoing, trusting, and following God's Son. it's about where one stands in relation to Him, and how one serves Him and magnifies Him day to day.

:clap This to me is the way it should be, not for the money!

 

[keithnurse]

Proof is always hard to get but I can say for sure that they are fat. This shows that no priest or bishop is going hungry.

Regards
DL

So, now you've changed it to "clergy should go hungry"? Where is that in the Bible? Would you allow them to have a phone? If not, how will people reach them when a minister or priest is needed? Your whole position is just silly.

 

[Greatest I am]

God bless you, dude. :flower2:

seek, and you will find.

I did find but no one will believe it.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

So, now you've changed it to "clergy should go hungry"? Where is that in the Bible? Would you allow them to have a phone? If not, how will people reach them when a minister or priest is needed? Your whole position is just silly.

Saying that I said " "clergy should go hungry" is an outright lie. Tsk, Tsk.

Regards
DL

 

[keithnurse]

Proof is always hard to get but I can say for sure that they are fat. This shows that no priest or bishop is going hungry.

Regards
DL

"No bishop or priest is going hungry" Isn't that the way it should be? Where is your evidence that clergy are "fat"? I know some who are and other who aren't.

 

[keithnurse]

My father was a licensed United Methodist minister from 1985-2004 when he retired. He was never paid more than 500 or 600 dollars a month. He was part time and did not have a degree from a seminary. He went to the Methodists licensing school for a year and then was licensed as a minister. He certainly is not rich. The minister at the UU church I go to is paid about $70,000 per year. He has a wife and two sons at home. 70,000 is an adequate living for a family of four but I certainly wouldn't call him wealthy. People who complain about ministers being in it for the money need a reality check. If a person wants to get rich there are much easier ways to do it than being a minister or priest, such as being a lawyer, dentist, surgeon, etc. If a person goes into the ministry looking to strike it rich, he/she is most likely in for a rude awakening unless he is super charismatic and writes a best selling religious book and starts a very successful tv or radio ministry. Ministers who do thatsuccessfully are very few and far between. Most nonCatholic churches in this country have 300 or fewer members and it is harder to grow them large than it used to be. If you check I think you will be able to verify that all I have said here is facts, not fantasies.

 

[thesoundoftruth]

A rick man shall enter into prosparity in paradise if he gave his richs to those in need, he may not need to give them all but spreading the wealth to help those in need is how he sahll stand before the gates and rejoice. For as said in the bible about greed Man can not serve two masters, he will grow to love one and loath the other. Now thats just a paraphrase but it speaks about mans love for money. If he loves his money so much he can't bare to part with it than he shall suffer the flames of eturnle damnation due to his succumbing to the sin of greed, but if he helps those in need and spreads his wealth than he shall stand with god in paradise.

 

[Greatest I am]

"No bishop or priest is going hungry" Isn't that the way it should be? Where is your evidence that clergy are "fat"? I know some who are and other who aren't.

I will grant that some are not but have you ever seen a papal procession?

They all look like nice fat penguins.

Regards
DL