Can any here offer a solution to the middle east conflicts between Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah?

[ChristineM]

Or the 1949 Armistice Agreement? Then, of course, there was the 6-Day War, and ...

Of course, though im talk about the foundation of the state of Israel, not the ever increasing land grab since

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Of course, though im talk about the foundation of the state of Israel, not the ever increasing land grab since

And I was talking about the history, nor your cartoonish representation.

 

[ChristineM]

And I was talking about the history, nor your cartoonish representation.

You think Ben Gurion to be cartoonist? Jolly good

 

[icehorse]

So yes you do know why i said 1948 so you are simply trying to override Ben-Gurion to satisfy your own beliefs. That's fair enough but it has nothing to do with my considered solution.

Please, stop trying to read my mind. Is it possible for you to discuss this in good faith?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Until all parties come to acknowledge that Israeli Jews and Muslim and Christian Palestinians will not give up on each having their own homeland over which they have full sovereignty, the fighting will continue.

And yet, in the Western world, we make room for pluralistic religions, cultures, and groups within western nations, allow for a lot of immigration, and the ability to cross borders with ease. If this philosophy is the correct way to view how land ought to be settled on, then I can't help but see that this philosophy, if it indeed has merit, seems to fail to be distributed to other places on this planet, while simultaneously we in the west are often criticized for not be accepting enough ourselves, of pluralism. This is an issue. I can't comment on what the middle-east should be doing. In America, we have a federal system of states - they don't seem to want to have that as their operating system, in other places. I say, they can do what they want. If I criticize them, they'll criticize me, and say that I'm imposing my views where I should not

 

[oldbadger]

Well as I've said many times on RF, every human alive is living on stolen land. That's kind of why I'm bringup this discussion.

As far as lives lost, I think the UN has to step in to end this, and probably, until Muslims put an end to Islamism, the UN will always need to police whatever two state solution gets cooked up.

As a point of clarification, you and @ChristineM both said "1948". Was that before the war?, after the war?, does that include the "separated body" around Jerusalem?

Also, many times I've brought up the tactical problems of giving the WB to Palestinians. I think this video does a good job of explaining why this would be a tactical nightmare...

Were you worried about telling me where you live, or for how long?

Can you guesstimate how many lives your ideas will cost?

I come from a mixture of races from Anglo Saxon/Scandinavian together with 'Southern French/Bordeaux' and my forbearers have lived here in England for just 1000 years, so I won't be stamping my feet and demanding to stop Celts living here who lived here long before that.

 

[ChristineM]

Please, stop trying to read my mind. Is it possible for you to discuss this in good faith?

I gave my solution, i gave the date you requested, is it possible to accept what i said is what i believe in good faith? Without trying to overwrite my belief with land grabs, wars murders abuse etc?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Or the 1949 Armistice Agreement? Then, of course, there was the 6-Day War, and ...

That was of course impossibly complex and equally impossible to describe in a few words.
Nor was it in any way definitive as it was only terms of an armistice with the expectation of further negotiations and hopefully agreements on the details. These hopes were never fulfilled to the satisfaction of anyone. Leading eventually to the present situation.

There never has been a time of peace in this whole region, only periods of relative military inaction.

 

[icehorse]

Were you worried about telling me where you live, or for how long?

Can you guesstimate how many lives your ideas will cost?

I come from a mixture of races from Anglo Saxon/Scandinavian together with 'Southern French/Bordeaux' and my forbearers have lived here in England for just 1000 years, so I won't be stamping my feet and demanding to stop Celts living here who lived here long before that.

I live in the US, I thought your question was rhetorical, sorry.

As for how many lives my ideas will cost, I'm not sure I understand the question. Islamism is ruining and costing countless lives everyday. How would stopping Islamism cost lives?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

In Israel, whether one walks north, east, or south, sooner or later one arrives at a place where one acknowledges: "Beyond here is no longer Israel." Depending on direction, one would be referring to Lebanon or Syria or Jordan or Egypt - each unique.

As I see it, my primary task is not to to talk a diverse people out of Islam, but to talk "my people" out of supporting a malignant regime that is focused on fulminating hate and staying in power. That is really, really hard.

What about the idea of adding even more diversity to the whole area of the middle-east. It is a solution that the left prescribes for america, but I think it only really works if every place on the planet has the same border policy. If any single nation on the planet has borders that are tighter than all the others, then then the concept necessarily fails, or would seem to

How do you define diversity? If there were no borders in-between all the nations on the planet, eventually everyone would be the same. Right? But I ask with utter seriousness: wouldn't that be for the best? Ultimately, are territorial differences spawning too much conflict in the world, or is that false? I honestly cannot tell. Diversity on the planet can also mean this: that large blocks different people can keep themselves separate, and contribute to a greater whole in their separate designated areas. Or is that unworkable? What should be the limit point in terms of population size / territory for each of the many different groups of humans on the planet? Is there some balance that needs to struck, planet-wide with this, that we're not seeing? Or again, should all the peoples of the earth combine into one, as much as possible?

 

[metis]

Even now there are more Jews living in the USA than in Israel. Perhaps they should all move there.

Why?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I live in the US, I thought your question was rhetorical, sorry.

As for how many lives my ideas will cost, I'm not sure I understand the question. Islamism is ruining and costing countless lives everyday. How would stopping Islamism cost lives?

I think your religious prejudice is showing.
It takes two to tango
Are not the Zionists just as much the problem.

Both the Jews and the Palestinians have an equal right to life and a nation to call home.
It was supposed to be a two state solution from the very beginning. It was never established.
So the present situation became inevitable.

While a majority of Palestinians are Moslem, a fair number of them are Christian.

 

[metis]

Both the Jews and the Palestinians have an equal right to life and a nation to call home.
It was supposed to be a two state solution from the very beginning. It was never established.

Jordan was and is a second state as it's the home of a great many Palestinians as mandated by the U.N. Hamas basically forfeited any such legitimate claim when it attacked Isreal with rockets and by the slaughter of Israeli civilians on 10-7.

 

[wellwisher]

Nearly everybody here hopes that all innocent civilians in Israel, Lebanon and Gaza may be supported, protected, in safety, rehomed and given food, water and medical supplies.

Each side hates the other fiercely.
So can anybody here offer any suggestions for ending these dreadful conflicts?

....because I have not got a clue.

The best way would be to help modernize Iran, so it is more in line with other rich Arab countries. Iran, under the Ayatollahs; spiritual and political leaders are too militant and are fighting proxy wars with Israel, supporting those who hate Israel with resources.

In 1979, when Jimmy Carter was President, and just before the President Reagan took office, the Shah of Iran; leader, was deposed by a religious rebellion that appealed to young militant youth. The Shah of Iran had made Iran more like Saudi Arabia, and like Saudi Arabia, Iran was an ally of the west. The Shah helped stabilize the region. After he was ousted, Iran went backwards to a more hostile version of their religion. If we could straighten that out, all the dominos will fall; free elections instead of an angry dictatorship.

Trump had set up an embargo of Iranian oil to reduce the money source, Iran was using to fight its proxy wars. But Biden and Harris removed the embargo, allowing Iran $billions in new revenue, which bought all those military toys used on Israel. We may have to do reinstate the oil embargo, again. Without that oil money to spend, Irans hostile influence dies down. Hopefully, there will then be unrest in Iran and revolution begins for the better.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

And yet, in the Western world, we make room for pluralistic religions, cultures, and groups within western nations, allow for a lot of immigration, and the ability to cross borders with ease. If this philosophy is the correct way to view how land ought to be settled on, then I can't help but see that this philosophy, if it indeed has merit, seems to fail to be distributed to other places on this planet, while simultaneously we in the west are often criticized for not be accepting enough ourselves, of pluralism. This is an issue. I can't comment on what the middle-east should be doing. In America, we have a federal system of states - they don't seem to want to have that as their operating system, in other places. I say, they can do what they want. If I criticize them, they'll criticize me, and say that I'm imposing my views where I should not

There are many things that go into making a successful pluralistic society. Canada, for example, is much, much better at it than the United States, where racial hatreds seem like normal parts of the current election.

Religion and tribalism (which is often religiously mandated) mitigate against this. There are those religions that want to live only in a "pure and holy" society -- meaning one in which everybody worships alike and follows the same rules. Others in that mix must be reduced in status, as in Muslim societies imposing the Jizyah on Christians and Jews -- still "people of the Book," but who have not adopted the "true faith." This does not make for comfortable multi-culturalism.

 

[icehorse]

I think your religious prejudice is showing.
It takes two to tango
Are not the Zionists just as much the problem.

Both the Jews and the Palestinians have an equal right to life and a nation to call home.
It was supposed to be a two state solution from the very beginning. It was never established.
So the present situation became inevitable.

While a majority of Palestinians are Moslem, a fair number of them are Christian.

Please note that I'm careful to talk about terrorists and Islamists and Muslims separately - I do not conflate them, each have their own characteristics.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Jordan was and is a second state as it's the home of a great many Palestinians as mandated by the U.N. Hamas basically forfeited any such legitimate claim when it attacked Isreal with rockets and by the slaughter of Israeli civilians on 10-7.

I do not agree with either of those statements.
The kingdom of Jordan had been established some years before and was not part off the discussions on separation.
10 -7 was a terrorist incident, one of many by both sides.

 

[oldbadger]

As for how many lives my ideas will cost, I'm not sure I understand the question. Islamism is ruining and costing countless lives everyday. How would stopping Islamism cost lives?

I guess that you realised just how terrible your ideas were by failing to tell the cost on lives.

Pointing me towards Islam as a redirection cannot help you.

 

[oldbadger]

The best way would be to help modernize Iran, so it is more in line with other rich Arab countries. Iran, under the Ayatollahs; spiritual and political leaders are too militant and are fighting proxy wars with Israel, supporting those who hate Israel with resources.

In 1979, when Jimmy Carter was President, and just before the President Reagan took office, the Shah of Iran; leader, was deposed by a religious rebellion that appealed to young militant youth. The Shah of Iran had made Iran more like Saudi Arabia, and like Saudi Arabia, Iran was an ally of the west. The Shah helped stabilize the region. After he was ousted, Iran went backwards to a more hostile version of their religion. If we could straighten that out, all the dominos will fall; free elections instead of an angry dictatorship.

Trump had set up an embargo of Iranian oil to reduce the money source, Iran was using to fight its proxy wars. But Biden and Harris removed the embargo, allowing Iran $billions in new revenue, which bought all those military toys used on Israel. We may have to do reinstate the oil embargo, again. Without that oil money to spend, Irans hostile influence dies down. Hopefully, there will then be unrest in Iran and revolution begins for the better.

The Shah didn't give a hoot for Iranian people which was a bit of a weakness when he needed support.

The Iranian people (especially the young) would like to join with Western cultures, but like the Russians they're frightened of showing that too much, recent sad incidents with young girls come to mind.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The best way would be to help modernize Iran, so it is more in line with other rich Arab countries. Iran, under the Ayatollahs; spiritual and political leaders are too militant and are fighting proxy wars with Israel, supporting those who hate Israel with resources.

In 1979, when Jimmy Carter was President, and just before the President Reagan took office, the Shah of Iran; leader, was deposed by a religious rebellion that appealed to young militant youth. The Shah of Iran had made Iran more like Saudi Arabia, and like Saudi Arabia, Iran was an ally of the west. The Shah helped stabilize the region. After he was ousted, Iran went backwards to a more hostile version of their religion. If we could straighten that out, all the dominos will fall; free elections instead of an angry dictatorship.

Trump had set up an embargo of Iranian oil to reduce the money source, Iran was using to fight its proxy wars. But Biden and Harris removed the embargo, allowing Iran $billions in new revenue, which bought all those military toys used on Israel. We may have to do reinstate the oil embargo, again. Without that oil money to spend, Irans hostile influence dies down. Hopefully, there will then be unrest in Iran and revolution begins for the better.

Why do you think that the USA has the right to rule the world slapping embargoes on other countries.
It ruined the economy of Venezuela that way, because they could not let a communist country thrive in the Americas.
Embargoes create far more world problems than they solve. The USA will find that out soon enough when the dollar fails and other countries have the power to put trade barriers against them.