Can Atheists Imagine?

[Reverend Rick]

Yes, because so many of them are more concerned with the number of people they 'converted' than anything else.

Thou shalt not lie

Thou shalt not bare false witness

Unless you are converting people/saving souls.​

Then, apparently, anything goes.​

How can getting you saved be telling a lie?

 

[fantome profane]

How can getting you saved be telling a lie?

Then let me ask the question straight out.

Would you lie? Would you tell a lie if you thought it meant saving a soul, or several souls? Why or why not?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Then let me ask the question straight out.

Would you lie? Would you tell a lie if you thought it meant saving a soul, or several souls? Why or why not?

I don't have to lie to save a soul. It is not our job as Christians to rope and coral the non believers and force them into submission. Our job as fishers of men is to plant the seed and let Christ work the miracle.

A good example would be to invite someone to church. I was at work and did this and the man challenged me. He said, "If you go to the bar with me Saturday night, I will go to church with you Sunday Morning". I took him up on the offer (to my wife's horror) and he was a man of his word and came to church with me. A month later he became saved.

 

[McBell]

I would be glad to. I am not required to be perfect and without sin. There has only been one person on this planet that could make that claim, and he is too humble to do so.

I am forgiven, that's why I can pull this off.

One time I attended a church and we needed a new Pastor. The church elders found fault with every candidate. I said I knew a perfect candidate, but he had denied that he knew Christ in the past several times. They all raised their eyebrows at me. I said that he was good enough to author several chapters in the bible however.

First off, you have not presented any verses.
Though I understand why if you are going to try some sort of 'everyone sins' defense in order to justify lieing to people to get them 'saved.'

Second, I find it extremely interesting your use of the phrase: "pull it off."

The last bit of the above quote ..
I fail to see the relevance.
Did this person you speak of lie and use other dishonest means in order to recruit followers?
Did this person tell people that they can fool God?
did this person break Gods own commandments to recruit followers?
Did this person use the "everyone sins and is forgiven of their sins" to justify said dishonest recruiting methods, and willful breaking of Gods Commandments?

I don't believe there is levels in Heaven, but some get to sit beside our Lord and others get larger rewards than others.

persons a and b get into a club, but person b gets a bigger reward than person, but claims there are no 'levels' in the club.
If people get better rewards than others in a club (heaven) then there are in fact levels within that club (heaven).

How can getting you saved be telling a lie?

What are you talking about?
I am talking about people who lie and use dishonest means and false information in order to convert others.

Does your deity honestly find this acceptable?
Does you deity allow for the breaking of his commandments for recruiting purposes?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Where is the lie? Your misunderstanding comes from someone else saying there was a lie. My comment was even if there was a lie more good than bad would occur.

Your assuming there is some deceit involved. Please show where this is true?

 

[McBell]

Where is the lie? Your misunderstanding comes from someone else saying there was a lie. My comment was even if there was a lie more good than bad would occur.

Your assuming there is some deceit involved. Please show where this is true?

You make the assumption that I am speaking of you and only you.
Can't help but wonder why.

I was talking about those people who do such things.
You jumped in and "defended" their actions with some sort of "everyone sins" defense.

You are now asking where you,personally, have done this and since I was not speaking of you, personally, but you as in Christians...

Furthermore, you have forgotten to reply the vast majority of my posts in this thread and I have to ask:

Why?
​

Because it honestly looks like you are going out of your way to avoid several points that I brought up.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I just reread the thread. Mestemia made the accusation that there was a lie.

Just because I did not call you on that last night, now it is a fact that someone lied?

For someone who has so much contempt for Christianity, you ask me to quote scripture?

Why would someone who does not believe in God want me to quote them scripture?

Why does it make you so mad when I bring souls to Christ?

 

[McBell]

I just reread the thread. Mestemia made the accusation that there was a lie.

Post number please.

Just because I did not call you on that last night, now it is a fact that someone lied?

what are you talking about?

For someone who has so much contempt for Christianity, you ask me to quote scripture?

Nice assumption.
My contempt is not for Christianity.
My contempt is for those who think that breaking Gods Commandment is ok for them but not for others.

Why would someone who does not believe in God want me to quote them scripture?

And what makes you think that I do not believe in God?
Perhaps if you were to take a better look at the information next to my avatar...

Why does it make you so mad when I bring souls to Christ?

I have not any idea what you are talking about here.
Why do you think I am mad about your seed planting?

 

[logician]

If you are right that there is no after life, you won't know your right, but if your wrong about this, you will have an eternity to think about your decision.

Except if there is no afterlife, you wasted a lot of time in this life chasing a fantasy.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yes, because so many of them are more concerned with the number of people they 'converted' than anything else.

Thou shalt not lie

Thou shalt not bare false witness

Unless you are converting people/saving souls.​

Then, apparently, anything goes.​

This was the post I was refering to. If I am wrong about your beliefs, please accept my apology. I would be glad to quote scripture at any time, but I have never said that one should lie.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Except if there is no afterlife, you wasted a lot of time in this life chasing a fantasy.

What is a life time compaired to an eternity?

 

[McBell]

This was the post I was refering to. If I am wrong about your beliefs, please accept my apology. I would be glad to quote scripture at any time, but I have never said that one should lie.

I never once said that you lied.

I do find your lack of response rather disappointing though

 

[Gentoo]

This was the post I was refering to. If I am wrong about your beliefs, please accept my apology. I would be glad to quote scripture at any time, but I have never said that one should lie.

But you did say that some Christians will do anything in order to save souls, that seems to include lieing to them.

No, I am serious. Christians will get you saved by any method they can. They have in the past and evangelicals will in the future.

 

[Quiddity]

If an infinite number of gods are possible, then one should at the very least venture into those that have attempted to talk back to the world. If you get it wrong, then I can only imagine a Just God would take that into consideration.

 

[McBell]

But you did say that some Christians will do anything in order to save souls, that seems to include lieing to them.

Some people who claim to be Christian do flat out lie to "save" others.
Jack Chick is a prime example.

 

[Gentoo]

Some people who claim to be Christian do flat out lie to "save" others.
Jack Chick is a prime example.

Oh I'm sure it happens, I'm just wondering what Rick has to say about it.

 

[McBell]

Oh I'm sure it happens, I'm just wondering what Rick has to say about it.

As am I.
But thus far he has not responded to the vast majority of what I have presented and I do believe he has not answered any of the questions I have asked.

 

[Mister_T]

Some people who claim to be Christian do flat out lie to "save" others.
Jack Chick is a prime example.

Those people have a dead faith IMO, and they are following it for the wrong reasons.

 

[McBell]

Those people have a dead faith IMO, and they are following it for the wrong reasons.

What disturbs me the most about these people is that they believe that it is fine to break Gods Commandments to do Gods Will.

I also believe that they are misunderstanding God by trying to 'recruit' followers.
When/where does God say to recruit followers?
I thought that Christians were told to "spread the word of God."
How does this get twisted into "Do whatever it takes, even breaking my commandments, to convert people to Christianity?"

 

[Reverend Rick]

As am I.
But thus far he has not responded to the vast majority of what I have presented and I do believe he has not answered any of the questions I have asked.

Sometimes when several people are posting very fast, I miss replies.

Ask again or give me the post number and I will respond.