Can Atheists Imagine?

[gnostic]

This life you live right now is but on tiny grain of sand on a beach of potential eternity.

What is a life time compaired to an eternity?

The thing is that I don't want eternity, in heaven or in hell, and certainly not on earth. Eternity, living forever and immortality simply doesn't appeal to me. The afterlife, in whatever shape or form, doesn't appeal to me whatsoever.

I like beauty in imperfection, not in perfection. Our earth is both beautiful and ugly at the same time, and nothing is perfect. That's good enough for me. I know I am not perfect. I don't want to be perfect, because perfection have no meaning for me. If everyone is perfect on earth, life would be terribly boring. Can you "imagine" a perfect heaven?

Perfection and rewards in heaven put me off as much punishment in hell. It would be damn triply boring, and boredom would be the worse punishment that you can inflict on me.

But when I eventually die, then I would prefer total end, instead of an afterlife; absolutely no spirit or spiritual life. One lifetime, nice and short and exciting, is more than enough for me. The rest, such as the afterlife and heaven, is simply extra baggages or shackle.

 

[Mister_T]

What disturbs me the most about these people is that they believe that it is fine to break Gods Commandments to do Gods Will

That disturbs me as well. Not to mention that I think those individuals need to study the Bible more in depth, seeing as how that is not at all condoned.

I also believe that they are misunderstanding God by trying to 'recruit' followers.
When/where does God say to recruit followers?
I thought that Christians were told to "spread the word of God."
How does this get twisted into "Do whatever it takes, even breaking my commandments, to convert people to Christianity?"

I totally agree. If something is as good as it's claiming to be, it should sell itself.

Car salesman don't need to do whatever it takes to sell a Toyata. Car salesmen tell people that they're offering a Toyota and that it's one of the most reliable cars you can buy. People know Toyota's good, that's why they buy them.

Christianity should sell itself and it does.

Sometimes though I feel that certain organizatons are taking the Toyota symbol and slapping it on a Pinto and trying to convince me it's a Toyota.

 

[McBell]

Sometimes when several people are posting very fast, I miss replies.

Ask again or give me the post number and I will respond.

From Post #42:

Think about it, is God going to be fooled by people who believe merely because it is the 'safer' route than disbelief?
And what of those who push this dishonesty?
​

From post #46

Did you save any souls with this nonsense?
​

From post #73

Perhaps you can point one out to me?
​

From post #84

Did this person you speak of lie and use other dishonest means in order to recruit followers?
Did this person tell people that they can fool God?
did this person break Gods own commandments to recruit followers?
Did this person use the "everyone sins and is forgiven of their sins" to justify said dishonest recruiting methods, and willful breaking of Gods Commandments?
What are you talking about?
Does your deity honestly find this acceptable?
Does you deity allow for the breaking of his commandments for recruiting purposes?
​

From post #88

Why do you think I am mad about your seed planting?
​

and post #99 in general.

 

[logician]

What is a life time compaired to an eternity?

If there is no afterlife, a lifetime is an eternity, i.e. all you've got.

 

[logician]

Didn't Paul preach to lie for the faith.

 

[McBell]

Didn't Paul preach to lie for the faith.

Verses please

 

[Reverend Rick]

I wonder how God feels about this whole 'Just in case" salvation that so many Christians like to preach.
Think about it, is God going to be fooled by people who believe merely because it is the 'safer' route than disbelief?
And what of those who push this dishonesty?

I would hope that the just in case method would cause Atheists to think about the situation and thus I have planted a seed. Perhaps the Lord will let the seed grow and the Atheist may actually get saved. Once saved, they may get baptised and when the holly Ghost enters them, they will truly believe.

I don't think God would be too upset with me rationalising to Atheists.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Did you save any souls with this nonsense?

Time will tell, the seeds are planted

I do not think so.
You are literally telling people that they can fool God.

No

 

[darkpenguin]

I can imagine and like doing so, it's what makes us so interesting compared to other animals and is the reason why we are where we are today.

I choose not to imagine gods because such things don't concern me, what concerns me is living life to the full and seeing the world and appreciating it and not taking it for granted.

If i had to sit in church every weekend and celebrate a god for giving us this earth I'd be a bit of a hypocrate really as I wouldn't be appreciating it whilst sat between 4 walls and I'd be wasting the opportunity to see what your 'god' has given us.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Not with claiming that it is endorsed by God.
Nowhere can I find in the Bible that Christians are allowed to break Gods commandments in order to convert.

Perhaps you can point one out to me?

You answered a question with a question here and interjected I said God endorsed it.

You are setting up a strawman arguement here. I said people do this and will continue to, I never said it was right or I personally do this.

 

[Reverend Rick]

First off, you have not presented any verses.
Though I understand why if you are going to try some sort of 'everyone sins' defense in order to justify lieing to people to get them 'saved.'

Where are you getting this from? Where did I say the word lie? I would love to quote you verses, but I don't understand what I am defending.

Second, I find it extremely interesting your use of the phrase: "pull it off."

You took that out of context

The last bit of the above quote ..
I fail to see the relevance.
Did this person you speak of lie and use other dishonest means in order to recruit followers?

What person in paticular? My statements were general not specific.

Did this person tell people that they can fool God?
did this person break Gods own commandments to recruit followers?
Did this person use the "everyone sins and is forgiven of their sins" to justify said dishonest recruiting methods, and willful breaking of Gods Commandments?

I still don't know what person you are speaking of

persons a and b get into a club, but person b gets a bigger reward than person, but claims there are no 'levels' in the club.
If people get better rewards than others in a club (heaven) then there are in fact levels within that club (heaven).

I disagree.

What are you talking about?
I am talking about people who lie and use dishonest means and false information in order to convert others.

Does your deity honestly find this acceptable?
Does you deity allow for the breaking of his commandments for recruiting purposes?

No

 

[McBell]

You answered a question with a question here and interjected I said God endorsed it.

You are setting up a strawman arguement here. I said people do this and will continue to, I never said it was right or I personally do this.

Huh?
My answer to the question was not a question.
my answer was:

Not with claiming that it is endorsed by God
​

That is not a question.
I then stated the fact:

Nowhere can I find in the Bible that Christians are allowed to break Gods commandments in order to convert.
​

And then asked the question:

Perhaps you can point one out to me?
​

All of which was in answer to your question:

Have you ever done the wrong thing for the right reason?
​

Which was your response to:

Yes, because so many of them are more concerned with the number of people they 'converted' than anything else.

Thou shalt not lie
Thou shalt not bare false witness

Unless you are converting people/saving souls.
Then, apparently, anything goes.​

Which was my response to:

Christians will get you saved by any method they can.
​

Where is the strawman?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Why do you think I am mad about your seed planting?

Because I am not on the same page with you and probably explains why I did not reply to something I did not understand. I felt that you were upset with me about something and now see that I was wrong about that statement. Again I apologise.

 

[Jaymes]

Do you really think you're throwing out a logical fallacy we haven't heard before, Rick? I can't speak for everyone else, but no seeds here.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

Do you really think you're throwing out a logical fallacy we haven't heard before, Rick? I can't speak for everyone else, but no seeds here.

same here.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What disturbs me the most about these people is that they believe that it is fine to break Gods Commandments to do Gods Will.

I also believe that they are misunderstanding God by trying to 'recruit' followers.
When/where does God say to recruit followers?
I thought that Christians were told to "spread the word of God."
How does this get twisted into "Do whatever it takes, even breaking my commandments, to convert people to Christianity?"

It doesn't say we are to break commandments. We are suppose to be doing fruit inspection and if you are filled with the holy ghost, you cannot help but want to evangelize. We are seed planters and missionaries and we spread the word of God.

I acknowledged that people are zealous in their endeavors to bring folks to Christ and even defended some of them, I never said I did this or that lieing or breaking commandments was fine with the Lord.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Do you really think you're throwing out a logical fallacy we haven't heard before, Rick? I can't speak for everyone else, but no seeds here.

Did you imagine Jaymes? If you did, I planted a seed.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Huh?
My answer to the question was not a question.

my answer was:

Not with claiming that it is endorsed by God​

That is not a question.

I then stated the fact:

Nowhere can I find in the Bible that Christians are allowed to break Gods commandments in order to convert.​

And then asked the question:

Perhaps you can point one out to me?​

All of which was in answer to your question:

Have you ever done the wrong thing for the right reason?​

Which was your response to:

Yes, because so many of them are more concerned with the number of people they 'converted' than anything else.​

Thou shalt not lie​

Thou shalt not bare false witness

Unless you are converting people/saving souls.​

Then, apparently, anything goes.​

Which was my response to:

Christians will get you saved by any method they can.​

Where is the strawman?

We will have to start over here. The sentence structure and sequence is confusing at best. I do not understand you original reply answer at all.

 

[McBell]

We will have to start over here. The sentence structure and sequence is confusing at best. I do not understand you original reply answer at all.

Is this easier to follow?:

Christians will get you saved by any method they can.

Yes, because so many of them are more concerned with the number of people they 'converted' than anything else.

Thou shalt not lie
Thou shalt not bare false witness

Unless you are converting people/saving souls.
Then, apparently, anything goes.
​

Have you ever done the wrong thing for the right reason?

Not with claiming that it is endorsed by God.
Nowhere can I find in the Bible that Christians are allowed to break Gods commandments in order to convert.
Perhaps you can point one out to me?

where is the strawman?

 

[Jaymes]

Did you imagine Jaymes? If you did, I planted a seed.

I can imagine many things. When I read a book and imagine unicorns and gryphons fighting in epic battles does that mean the seed for becoming a unicorn and gryphon believer is planted? I'd go with it simply meaning I have a mind and can use it.

And trust me... no seeds here.