Can known homosexuals join any Southern Baptist church?

[Agnostic75]

All of your positions on the SBC are an unbalanced, lazy, and incoherent combination of poor judgment and even worse reasoning skills.

What are my positions about the SBC? What false claims have I made about the SBC?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

No trying is necessary since in one post, you said that you did not say anything about the LDS church, and your previous post #46 shows that you did. It is ok if you made a mistake, everyone does, but it would be nice if you admitted that you made a mistake.

I looked at that quote you continually refer to and AE said he knew a Mormon who was Gay. How does that equate to him knowing anything specific about LDS? I know some Mormons and some JW's too but what I know about their religion is limited to what's in the wiki. Your attempt to point out a falsehood on AE's part is a bit pathetic, IMHO.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What are my positions about the SBC? What false claims have I made about the SBC?

Don't insult your intelligence. I almost feel sorry for you.

 

[Agnostic75]

I looked at that quote you continually refer to and AE said he knew a Mormon who was Gay. How does that equate to him knowing anything specific about LDS? I know some Mormons and some JW's too but what I know about their religion is limited to what's in the wiki. Your attempt to point out a falsehood on AE's part is a bit pathetic, IMHO.

In his post #59, he said "I did not address the LDS church at all, because I don't know anything about it." In his previous post #46, he said "I know homosexuals who are ordained ministers in both churches," meaning one in a Mormon church, and one in an Assembly of God church.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What are my positions about the SBC? What false claims have I made about the SBC?

Anyway, Broadway Baptist Church allowed open homosexuals to join the church for at least 10 years while they were an SBC church.

The process of getting kicked out of the SBC was very long, and the SBC didn't even bother to research Broadway's situation (in 2009 the SBC allowed less then 30 seconds "debate" on the issue).

SBC churches don't ask people if they are gay before they join the church. Maybe it's assumed that the new member knows that the SBC is openly hostile to homosexuals, but many don't know and the individual churches don't care.

 

[Agnostic75]

Anyway, Broadway Baptist Church allowed open homosexuals to join the church for at least 10 years while they were an SBC church.


The process of getting kicked out of the SBC was very long, and the SBC didn't even bother to research Broadway's situation (in 2009 the SBC allowed less than 30 seconds "debate" on the issue).



SBC churches don't ask people if they are gay before they join the church. Maybe it's assumed that the new member knows that the SBC is openly hostile to homosexuals, but many don't know and the individual churches don't care.

It can be assumed that the SBC would kick out any Southern Baptist church that it knew had appointed a known homosexual to a leadership position.

The vast majority of representatives from SBC churches voted to oust the Broadway Baptist church, even though the Broadway church said that it did not affirm homosexuality, and believed that homosexuality is a sin.

There are surely more than several homosexual members of Southern Baptist churches, but I think that that is usually because their sexual preference is not known when they become members.




SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION AND HOMOSEXUALITY

Traditionally, this denomination had varying levels of tolerance for homosexuality and had expressed concern over gay-bashing. However, with the shift of the SBC towards fundamentalism starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members and the right of loving, committed same-sex couples to marry. Their greatest concern is the gradual cultural acceptance of homosexuality and bisexuality as normal and natural for a minority of adults. One evidence of this is that most American adults now favor the legalization of same-sex marriage.

Please note that "starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members......."



Please read an article at http://www.oneorlando.org/images/The_Southern_Baptist_Conspiracy_pdf.pdf.


Please also read an article at New Southern Baptist Curriculum Bashes Gays | Religion Dispatches.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'm carrying on a conversation with a can of spam.

 

[Agnostic75]

4 8 15 16 23 42

Thank you. Let's discuss those posts one at a time. What do you object to regarding post #4?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I am referring to Southern Baptist churches that are members of the Southern Baptist Convention. In addition, I am referring to homosexuals whose sexual preference is known by the boards of directors of the churches.

1) The SBC has no control, whether direct or indirect, over membership practices of its member churches

2) SBC churches do not have boards of directors.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yeah, religions would take anyone they can get, but they'd probably do one of their exorcism things on "the gay demon inside him"

 

[Agnostic75]

The SBC has no control, whether direct or indirect, over membership practices of its member churches.

You might be right, but not regarding appointing an openly homosexual person to a leadership position. The SBC would not tolerate that. The SBC can oust any Southern Baptist church that it considers affirms homosexuality, or is too friendly towards homosexuals.

SBC churches do not have boards of directors.

At least this one does.

Church Constitution - Oakton Baptist Church of Chantilly

Oakton Baptist Church of Chantilly

An Elder shall serve on the Board of Directors.

Anyway, that does not have anything to do with whether or not it is difficult for known homosexuals to become members of most Southern Baptist churches, or to remain members if it is found out that they are homosexual. I will contact some Southern Baptist churches and find out if they allow known homosexuals to become church members. If they do, that would be great, the more the merrier. The SBC certainly would not tolerate any church member, whether homosexual, or heterosexual, organizing a gay pride parade.

 

[Agnostic75]

SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION AND HOMOSEXUALITY

Traditionally, this denomination had varying levels of tolerance for homosexuality and had expressed concern over gay-bashing. However, with the shift of the SBC towards fundamentalism starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members and the right of loving, committed same-sex couples to marry. Their greatest concern is the gradual cultural acceptance of homosexuality and bisexuality as normal and natural for a minority of adults. One evidence of this is that most American adults now favor the legalization of same-sex marriage.

Please note that "starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members......."

 

[angellous_evangellous]

You might be right, but not regarding appointing an openly homosexual person to a leadership position. The SBC would not tolerate that. The SBC can oust any Southern Baptist church that it considers affirms homosexuality, or is too friendly towards homosexuals.



At least this one does.

Church Constitution - Oakton Baptist Church of Chantilly



Anyway, that does not have anything to do with how difficult it is for known homosexuals to become members of most Southern Baptist churches. I will contact some Southern Baptist churches and find out if they allow known homosexuals to become church members. If they do, that would be great, the more the merrier.

1) The SBC has no authority over the hiring of any staff member of any member churches

2) There is no rule of Baptist polity that precludes homosexuals joining the church. One important thing to remember is that no one is asked if they are a homosexual before they join the church.

*since you are OBVIOUSLY uninterested in actually learning anything about SBC polity, I will have some pity on you and tell you the membership requirements to join member churches

A) Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord

B) Be baptized by full immersion

There is no requirement to ask someone if they are GLBT, no requirement to take someone off the membership rolls if they later "come out," there is not even a requirement to be non-GLBT to get ordained, and they don't ask. There is no requirement that pastors be straight, and they don't ask.

 

[Agnostic75]

There is no requirement to ask someone if they are GLBT, no requirement to take someone off the membership rolls if they later "come out," there is not even a requirement to be non-GLBT to get ordained, and they don't ask.

SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION AND HOMOSEXUALITY

Traditionally, this denomination had varying levels of tolerance for homosexuality and had expressed concern over gay-bashing. However, with the shift of the SBC towards fundamentalism starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members and the right of loving, committed same-sex couples to marry. Their greatest concern is the gradual cultural acceptance of homosexuality and bisexuality as normal and natural for a minority of adults. One evidence of this is that most American adults now favor the legalization of same-sex marriage.

Please note that "starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members......."

This is easy to settle. I will contact a number of Southern Baptist churches and ask them if they allow homosexuals who are presumed to be sexually active to become church members, and to hold leadership positions. You can contact some yourself if you want to.

Thank you for being willing to have some normal discussions without making personal remarks.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION AND HOMOSEXUALITY

This does not mean that the SBC has ANYTHING to do with its member churches' membership practices.

It's easy to join an SBC church. For anyone.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

At least this one does.

You've found a very rare, insignificant example.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION AND HOMOSEXUALITY



Please note that "starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members......."

This is easy to settle. I will contact a number of Southern Baptist churches and ask them if they allow homosexuals who are presumed to be sexually active to become church members, and to hold leadership positions. You can contact some yourself if you want to.

Thank you for being willing to have some normal discussions without making personal remarks.

Well, you need to distinguish between "becoming a member" and "becoming a leader." OBVIOUSLY, the requirements to be a 'leader' are more stringent than regular membership requirements.

I don't need to contact any churches. I'm aware of SBC life.

 

[Agnostic75]

There is no requirement that pastors be straight, and they don't ask.

Autonomy

When Southern Baptist leaders want to take action, they don't let the principle of autonomy prevent it.

The nation's largest statewide Baptist group, the Baptist General Convention of Texas, ousted a church for ordaining a gay man as a deacon.

In 2010, the BGCT appears poised to sever ties with a church because it added a welcoming, gay-friendly sentence to its website. The Georgia Baptist Convention followed Texas' lead and ousted two churches for having gay deacons.

The Southern Baptists of Texas Convention ousted a church for the simple reason that it allowed its facilities to be used as a meeting place for a separate ministry group, Eklektos, that welcomed gay people and that was run by a female Presbyterian minister. (See also report in the Associated Baptist Press.)

The national body, the Southern Baptist Convention, amended its constitution to deny membership to "churches which act to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior."

The Southern Baptist Convention disaffiliated Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth because of its perception that the church was tolerant of gay members.

The Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, the nation's second-largest statewide Baptist group, amended its articles of incorporation so state denominational leaders can even undertake to investigate churches that allow gays as mere members. Numerous churches were immediately subject to being disfellowshipped. In November 2007, the North Carolina convention disfellowshipped the Myers Park church on the basis that it was affiliated with groups that welcome homosexuals.

The Georgia and Florida conventions also have anti-gay policies.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Wow, I got distracted by a squirrel for a few hours, come back, and the exact same posts are still getting repeated, on, and on, and on, and on, and on...

 

[Agnostic75]

Baptist Press - N.C. Baptists vote to exclude pro-homosexuality churches - News with a Christian Perspective

November 15, 2006

The Baptist State Convention of North Carolina strengthened its membership criteria Nov. 14 to specify churches that do not support homosexuality and do not allow homosexuals to be members until they repent.

Messengers voted by nearly a three-fourths majority to change the convention’s articles of incorporation, Article VI.A.3 concerning membership as proposed in the “Sanderson Motion,” brought before the convention last year by Bill Sanderson, pastor of Hephzibah Baptist Church in Wendell.