Can known homosexuals join any Southern Baptist church?

[Agnostic75]

Wow, I got distracted by a squirrel for a few hours, come back, and the exact same posts are still getting repeated, on, and on, and on, and on, and on...

My two previous posts contain new information.

 

[fallingblood]

I'm carrying on a conversation with a can of spam.

At least a can of spam can be useful. It serves as a good paper weight.

 

[fallingblood]

My two previous posts contain new information.

And the other 20 or 30 are the same spam repeated over and over. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

 

[Agnostic75]

There is no requirement to ask someone if they are GLBT, no requirement to take someone off the membership rolls if they later "come out," there is not even a requirement to be non-GLBT to get ordained, and they don't ask.

SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION AND HOMOSEXUALITY

Traditionally, this denomination had varying levels of tolerance for homosexuality and had expressed concern over gay-bashing. However, with the shift of the SBC towards fundamentalism starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members and the right of loving, committed same-sex couples to marry. Their greatest concern is the gradual cultural acceptance of homosexuality and bisexuality as normal and natural for a minority of adults. One evidence of this is that most American adults now favor the legalization of same-sex marriage.

Please note that "starting about 1980, attitudes have significantly hardened into an extreme opposition to equal rights for gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, including allowing sexually active gay, lesbian, and bisexuals to become church members......."

This is easy to settle. I will contact a number of Southern Baptist churches and ask them if they allow homosexuals who are presumed to be sexually active to become church members, and to hold leadership positions.

There is no requirement that pastors be straight, and they don't ask.

Autonomy

When Southern Baptist leaders want to take action, they don't let the principle of autonomy prevent it.

The nation's largest statewide Baptist group, the Baptist General Convention of Texas, ousted a church for ordaining a gay man as a deacon.

In 2010, the BGCT appears poised to sever ties with a church because it added a welcoming, gay-friendly sentence to its website. The Georgia Baptist Convention followed Texas' lead and ousted two churches for having gay deacons.

The Southern Baptists of Texas Convention ousted a church for the simple reason that it allowed its facilities to be used as a meeting place for a separate ministry group, Eklektos, that welcomed gay people and that was run by a female Presbyterian minister. (See also report in the Associated Baptist Press.)

The national body, the Southern Baptist Convention, amended its constitution to deny membership to "churches which act to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior."

The Southern Baptist Convention disaffiliated Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth because of its perception that the church was tolerant of gay members.

The Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, the nation's second-largest statewide Baptist group, amended its articles of incorporation so state denominational leaders can even undertake to investigate churches that allow gays as mere members. Numerous churches were immediately subject to being disfellowshipped. In November 2007, the North Carolina convention disfellowshipped the Myers Park church on the basis that it was affiliated with groups that welcome homosexuals.

The Georgia and Florida conventions also have anti-gay policies.

Baptist Press - N.C. Baptists vote to exclude pro-homosexuality churches - News with a Christian Perspective

November 15, 2006

The Baptist State Convention of North Carolina strengthened its membership criteria Nov. 14 to specify churches that do not support homosexuality and do not allow homosexuals to be members until they repent.

Messengers voted by nearly a three-fourths majority to change the convention’s articles of incorporation, Article VI.A.3 concerning membership as proposed in the “Sanderson Motion,” brought before the convention last year by Bill Sanderson, pastor of Hephzibah Baptist Church in Wendell.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

My two previous posts contain new information.

Dude, you crack me up. :biglaugh:

 

[Agnostic75]

Dude, you crack me up.

Would you like to comment on my previous post?

 

[Agnostic75]

I am referring to Southern Baptist churches that are members of the Southern Baptist Convention. In addition, I am referring to homosexuals whose sexual preference is known by the boards of directors of the churches.

Well the answer is yes, they can.......One thing you have to remember about Baptist churches, each and every one of them is fully autonomous. They are all allowed to make up their own rules and bylaws.

My post #204 shows otherwise regarding homosexuality.

 

[fallingblood]

My post #204 shows otherwise regarding homosexuality.

No it doesn't. A_E informed you of the process of joining such a church. There isn't a question or box you have to check concerning sexual orientation.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

OK, folks. Every time Agnostic posts the same link, everyone has to take a shot.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Would you like to comment on my previous post?

Every time you post the same thing, Darth Vader farts.

(in his suit)

 

[fallingblood]

OK, folks. Every time Agnostic posts the same link, everyone has to take a shot.

I have a pretty high tolerance for alcohol, but that many shots may kill me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I have a pretty high tolerance for alcohol, but that many shots may kill me.

Well let's hope that you pass out first.

 

[Agnostic75]

Well the answer is yes, they can.......One thing you have to remember about Baptist churches, each and every one of them is fully autonomous. They are all allowed to make up their own rules and bylaws.

No Southern Baptist church is free to have rules and bylaws that state that sexually active homosexuals are allowed to become church members, or to hold church leadership positions, and remain in the SBC if the SBC finds out about it.

The SBC allows a lot of autonomy for its member churches, but my post #204 shows that that autonomy is quite limited regarding member churches' attitudes and policies towards homosexuals who are presumed to be sexually active. It is not just the SBC that disciplines churches. As I have shown, a number of state Southern Baptist conventions have also ousted or threatened member churches that were considered to be too friendly towards homosexuals.

Consider the following:

About Us - Basic Beliefs

According to our constitution, if a church no longer makes a bona fide contribution to the Convention's work, or if it acts to "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior," it no longer complies with the Constitution of the Southern Baptist Convention and is not permitted to send messengers to the annual meeting. These, however, are the only explicitly stated instances in which the SBC has the prerogative to take action. Failure to remain in "friendly cooperation" would also disqualify a church from sending messengers, and is obviously more of a subjective test.

The term "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior" is interpreted in various ways by the SBC, and by state conventions. My post #204 shows shome of those ways.

I have never claimed that any Southern Baptist churches have questionnaries for church membership that ask people whether or not they are sexually active homosexuals. That has never been an issue in this thread. Rather, the issue has been "What will the SBC, and state conventions, tolerate regarding their interpretations of affirming, approving, or endorsing homosexual behavior?"

McDonald's wants their customers to have consistency no matter where they buy McDonald's hamburgers. Similarly, the SBC wants their member churches to have consistency regarding their attitudes towards homosexuality. Since conservatives took over the SBC leadership years ago, the SBC, and the state conventions, have become much more aggressive towards attitudes about homosexuality. A leader of the ousted Broadway Baptist church in Texas told the SBC that although they believe that homosexuality is a sin, homosexuality is not a defining issue for them. Obviously, homosexuality is a defining issue for the SBC, and most, or all state conventions.

 

[Agnostic75]

And really, this is nothing to do with Biblical grounds. It has to do with people being intolerant, and justifying that intolerance, plain and simple.

Surely millions of conservative Christians would disagree with that, and many of them would be willing to debate you about that.

I once read some comments by a young Christian man who had a gay sexual identity. He said that he was celibate, but only because he believed that the Bible opposes same-sex behavior. His celibacy was not because he was intolerant with himself, but because he believed that the Bible opposes same-sex behavior. Some celibate homsoexuals are even afraid to masturbate because they believe that God will punish them.

There is no way that you could know how many Christian opponents of same-sex behavior oppose it because of intolerance only, the Bible only, or a combination of both.

 

[Agnostic75]

I am willing to leave things as they are now in this thread if everyone else is. I think that it is best to move on to other issues.

 

[fallingblood]

Surely millions of conservative Christians would disagree with that, and many of them would be willing to debate you about that.

Sure, but they would be wrong. Just because millions of people believe something, doesn't make it right. You have to learn that.

I once read some comments by a young Christian man who had a gay sexual identity. He said that he was celibate, but only because he believed that the Bible opposes same-sex behavior. His celibacy was not because he was intolerant with himself, but because he believed that the Bible opposes same-sex behavior. Some celibate homsoexuals are even afraid to masturbate because they believe that God will punish them.

And why did he believe that? I doubt it was because he actually studied the Bible, the culture, and the language, but instead was taught that by intolerant individuals who justified their prejudice with the Bible. The same thing is true with many other issues. And it is not just something that occurs with in Christianity.

There is no way that you could know how many Christian opponents of same-sex behavior oppose it because of intolerance only, the Bible only, or a combination of both.

Actually I can. All oppose it based on intolerance. Whether or not it is their own intolerance, or they are taught intolerance from someone else. It is intolerance.

 

[fallingblood]

I am willing to leave things as they are now in this thread if everyone else is. I think that it is best to move on to other issues.

Why didn't you do that before you went and copied and pasted pages and pages of the same stuff? Everyone had stopped.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Would you like to comment on my previous post?

No thanks, at this point I'm just here for the entertainment. opcorn:

 

[Agnostic75]

Sure, but they would be wrong. Just because millions of people believe something, doesn't make it right.

Since you wish to continue these discussions, that is fine. You said:

"And really, this is nothing to do with Biblical grounds. It has to do with people being intolerant, and justifying intolerance."

It has plenty to do with biblical grounds in the opinions of millions of Christians. How do you propose to convince those Christians that they have misinterpreted the Bible?

 

[Agnostic75]

All oppose it based on intolerance. Whether or not it is their own intolerance, or they are taught intolerance from someone else. It is intolerance.

Are you suggesting that no conservative Christians who oppose same-sex behavior have been influenced by what the Bible says about same-sex behavior? If so, the SBC would definitely disagree with you.