Can known homosexuals join any Southern Baptist church?

[angellous_evangellous]

SBC Committee Decides against Expelling Members of Pro-Gay Bapist Alliance, Christian News



Southern Baptists Convention fighting 'don't ask, don't tell' repeal - Democratic Underground



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This is like watching someone rant against a sports team that stinks -- but the entire rant is misinformed.

 

[Agnostic75]

This is like watching someone rant against a sports team that stinks -- but the entire rant is misinformed.

Are you implying that the Southern Baptist Convention allows all Southern Baptist churches to decide for themselves whether or not to allow openly homosexual people to become church members, and whether or not to allow heterosexual church members to openly approve of homosexuality, participate in pro-gay parades, etc? If not, what have I said that was misinformed?

 

[Agnostic75]

I meant "assumed to be practicing." If a gay man talks about having sex with another man, most churches would assume that he is a practicing homosexual.

I assume that any openly gay man who publically promotes gay rights would not be allowed to join any Southern Baptist church, and that any exceptions would be very rare.

This is irrelevant, given the rarity of homosexuality in the general population, and the unpopularity of the SBC and evangelical churches in general.

What does how numerous a group is have to do with their civil rights?

There are probably at least 9 million GLBT people living in the U.S. That is a lot of people.

Membership in the SBC has been declining for years, but it is still the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., probably has at least 15 millions members, and has a lot of political influence in most Southern Bible Belt states.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Are you implying that the Southern Baptist Convention allows all Southern Baptist churches to decide for themselves whether or not to allow openly homosexual people to become church members, and whether or not to allow heterosexual church members to openly approve of homosexuality, participate in pro-gay parades, etc? If not, what have I said that was misinformed?

I thought I was clear:

You don't know what you're talking about and I see that you have no interest in learning about it.

So yes, you're like someone who is ranting against a sports team but wrong about all the players, coaches, etc. I'm sure all of us have seen the pathetic, pleading fool who does this at the super bowl for example, the one sporting event that they attend per year. They get that the Mets suck, but have no idea why, so they make it up.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What does how numerous a group is have to do with their civil rights?

Just as much as my statement had to do with civil rights.

Even the most distracted reader can detect that I was merely explaining the RARITY of homosexuals to explain the "exceptions" of homosexuals joining SBC churches.

My statement had nothing to do with civil rights, but pointing out the obvious with respect to your "exceptions." You've asked for examples, I've presented two. You've completely ignored it and merrily went on and on about how exceptional a single example would be. Which is painfully thoughtless in light of the small population of homosexuals in the first place.

 

[uu_sage]

Unfortunately since the Fundamentalist takeover of the SBC in '79 God's gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, queer or questioning children have made to feel un-welcomed in Southern Baptist Churches or other Baptist churches in that tradition. The culture in many of these churches is a "don't ask don't tell" scenario where God's LGBT children have to lie about who they are in order to be accepted but the moment in which they are found out they will most likely be driven out. Southern Baptists or other conservative Baptists are not the only Baptist voice. There are many open and affirming Baptist churches and they can be found in such denominations as the Alliance of Baptists (AofB), the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America (BPFNA), The American Baptist Churches USA, the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF). Yes being liberal and Baptist is possible. The nearest open and affirming Baptist Churches near me are First Baptist Redlands (American Baptist), and Fairview Community Church in Orange County (American Baptist-UCC)

 

[garrydons]

In addition, how about any Mormon church, and any Assembly of God church?

In our Congregation, we do not welcome any homosexuals, it is against God will. They should change first to either true man or woman.

 

[Agnostic75]

You've asked for examples, I've presented two. You've completely ignored it and merrily went on and on about how exceptional a single example would be. Which is painfully thoughtless in light of the small population of homosexuals in the first place.

The small population of homosexuals does not have anything to do with the established policies of the Southern Baptist Convention, and its member churches.

You keep mentioning examples, but "currently," where in the U.S. can openly homosexual people join a Southern Baptist church? If there are some exceptions, that would be wonderful, and I would be very pleased, so I hope that I am wrong, not that I am right.

Even though membership in the Southern Baptist Convention has been decreasing for years, it is still the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., still has a lot of political influence in the Southern Bible Belt, and is larger than the Mormon church.

Consider the following:

civil unions « Unorthodox Faith

June 24, 2009

Last month at their annual convention, the Southern Baptists voted to sever their ties with the Broadway Baptist Church of Ft. Worth, Texas.

Broadway Baptist Church has been a part of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) since the church’s inception in 1882. Over the years, two of Broadway’s pastors have served as leaders in the SBC. The relationship has been a fruitful one for more than a century.

Now, the SBC has ejected Broadway because of their position, or rather non-position, on homosexuality. Broadway’s leadership has refused to make a statement for or against homosexuality. A number of members of the church are openly homosexual.

The SBC has historically been opposed to homosexuality but during the 80′s, a more liberal element took control of the convention. Conservatives campaigned hard against the more progressive liberals and during the 90′s slowly took back the reins. The past decade has seen the SBC adopt a much more traditional position in many areas.

In 1997, they announced a boycott of the Disney companies because the SBC felt that Disney promoted immorality, particularly homosexuality. The boycott ran until 2005, and even after officially ending the boycott, the SBC leadership stated they would continue to “monitor the products and policies” of Disney.

The boycott was followed by a 1998 revision of “The Baptist Faith & Message”, the SBC’s guiding doctrinal statement. The revision included a new article stating plainly that the SBC believed marriage was the union of one man and one woman.

In 2000, the SBC officially adopted an updated version of “The Baptist Faith & Message”. In this document, they included two strongly worded anti-homosexual statements that reflected the beliefs of many SBC churches:

Christians should oppose…all forms of sexual immorality, including adultery, homosexuality, and pornography. (Article XV)
Marriage is the uniting of one man and one woman in covenant commitment for a lifetime. (Article XVIII, originally added in 1998)
​

While Broadway protests that they have done nothing to warrant their ejection and that they should not make moral judgments as qualifications for membership, the SBC leadership made it plain that “The Baptist Faith & Message” is the official position of the SBC, and churches who join the SBC are required to comply to it. Translation? Homosexuals are not welcome to participate in SBC churches.

The SBC does not single out homosexuality as the only sin that is worth ejecting churches from their ranks, but thus far, it is the only one to gain national media attention. Statistics are not available for churches ejected for other acts that might be considered sexual sins – adultery, fornication, divorce and remarriage or other practices.

The leadership at Broadway has stated plainly that it is not the practice of the SBC to deny membership to people committing adultery, so why should homosexuals be singled out. They further contend that they are not supporting homosexuality, but simply not discriminating against homosexuals.

That shows that an individual Southern Baptist church allowed openly homosexual people to become church members, and when the Southern Baptist Convention found out that the Broadway church was not consistent with church policy, it kicked the church out of the Southern Baptist Convention. I assume that the Broadway church is a rare exception among Southern Baptist churches, but a welcome one none the less.

The Mormon church got a lot of criticism regarding Proposition 8. Largely as a result, the church softened its stand on civil unions, and at least one openly homosexual Mormon was asked to serve in a leadership position in a Mormon church. In addition, there is a growing amount of support for homosexuals among Mormons. These improvements are welcome, and just, and congratulations are in order for progressive Mormons. Now, the Southern Baptist Convention also needs to be criticized. Ignoring them would only serve to help perpetuate their oppression of homosexuals.

Believe it or not, until a 2003 U.S. Supreme Court decision, homosexuality was officially illegal in Texas, and twelve other states, the majority of which are in the Southern Bible Belt, where Southern Baptists are the most numerous. Two exceptions were Utah, and Idaho. The court case is called "Lawrence versus Texas." You can read about it at Lawrence v. Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Two gay men in Texas were arrested for having sex in the privacy of a home. They were not bothering anyone.

 

[miss interpret]

To me this brings in two points.1st point any church should, would gladly accept any sinner.2nd point any sinner wishing to continue in the same sin and not change should not be accepted in to a church.Sounds really weird but salvation is all about turning away from your sinfull habits and trying to change if you have no intentions of changing you are not seeking salvation.

 

[miss interpret]

The small population of homosexuals does not have anything to do with the established policies of the Southern Baptist Convention, and its member churches.

You keep mentioning examples, but "currently," where in the U.S. can openly homosexual people join a Southern Baptist church? If there are some exceptions, that would be wonderful, and I would be very pleased, so I hope that I am wrong, not that I am right.

Even though membership in the Southern Baptist Convention has been decreasing for years, it is still the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., still has a lot of political influence in the Southern Bible Belt, and is larger than the Mormon church.

Consider the following:

civil unions « Unorthodox Faith



That shows that an individual Southern Baptist church allowed openly homosexual people to become church members, and when the Southern Baptist Convention found out that the Broadway church was not consistent with church policy, it kicked the church out of the Southern Baptist Convention. I assume that the Broadway church is a rare exception among Southern Baptist churches, but a welcome one none the less.

The Mormon church got a lot of criticism regarding Proposition 8. Largely as a result, the church softened its stand on civil unions, and at least one openly homosexual Mormon was asked to serve in a leadership position in a Mormon church. In addition, there is a growing amount of support for homosexuals among Mormons. These improvements are welcome, and just, and congratulations are in order for progressive Mormons. Now, the Southern Baptist Convention also needs to be criticized. Ignoring them would only serve to help perpetuate their oppression of homosexuals.

Believe it or not, until a 2003 U.S. Supreme Court decision, homosexuality was officially illegal in Texas, and twelve other states, the majority of which are in the Southern Bible Belt, where Southern Baptists are the most numerous. Two exceptions were Utah, and Idaho. The court case is called "Lawrence versus Texas." You can read about it at Lawrence v. Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Two gay men in Texas were arrested for having sex in the privacy of a home. They were not bothering anyone.

Why should they br applauded for compromising the word of God.

 

[Katzpur]

In addition, how about any Mormon church, and any Assembly of God church?

Celibate homosexuals are welcome to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as are unmarried, celibate heterosexuals.

 

[Agnostic75]

Why should they be applauded for compromising the word of God.

A Christian organization that is called "Soulforce" can answer your question much better than I can. I suggest that you contact them.

Wikipedia says:

"Soulforce is an American social justice and civil rights organization that supports acceptance of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ) people through dialogue and creative forms of nonviolent direct action. Soulforce is inspired by the principles of relentless nonviolent resistance as taught and practiced by Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.

"It was founded in 1998 by Mel White, who was a ghostwriter for Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, and others until he came out as a gay man. The organization's Executive Director is Rev. Cindi Love."

I also suggest that you contact the Metropolitan Community Church. Wikipedia says:

"The Metropolitan Community Church (MCC), also known as the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches (UFMCC), is an international Protestant Christian denomination. There are 222 member congregations in 37 countries, and the Fellowship has a specific outreach to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender families and communities.

"The Fellowship has Official Observer status with the World Council of Churches. The MCC has been denied membership in the US National Council of Churches, but many local MCC congregations are members of local ecumenical partnerships around the world and MCC currently belongs to several state-wide councils of churches in the United States."

 

[sojourner]

To me this brings in two points.1st point any church should, would gladly accept any sinner.2nd point any sinner wishing to continue in the same sin and not change should not be accepted in to a church.Sounds really weird but salvation is all about turning away from your sinfull habits and trying to change if you have no intentions of changing you are not seeking salvation.

What does this have to do with homosexuality?

 

[sojourner]

Why should they br applauded for compromising the word of God.

and what is that word?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The small population of homosexuals does not have anything to do with the established policies of the Southern Baptist Convention, and its member churches.

Boy, am I impressed that you made it that far.

That's very good.

Now wouldn't the small population of homosexuals preclude dismissing a homosexual member of the church (LIKE THE TWO THAT I MENTIONED) as "exceptional."

That is to say - we know that there is a small population of homosexuals in the general population, and most aren't attracted to evangelical churches, so locating a homosexual in a SBC church says absolutely NOTHING about the exceptional nature of such an occurrence.

I know it hurts, but you can think if you try.

 

[Agnostic75]

Did you miss post #72?

You are referring to a Mormon named MItch Mayne. As far as I know, he is a celibate homosexual, not a practicing homosexual. The word "homosexual" can refer to sexual orientation, and/or to homosexual practices.

Consider the following:

Openly Gay Mormon Appointed to LDS Church Leadership Position | Religion Dispatches

August 24, 2011

Late Sunday, news came across the Mormon grapevine: an openly gay Mormon man named Mitch Mayne had been asked (or “called,” in Mormon parlance) to serve as a leader in an LDS congregation in San Francisco.

Before receiving his call to serve in San Francisco, Mayne had been attending an LDS congregation in Oakland, where Mormons have been especially active in efforts to repair damage to interfaith and LDS-LGBT relations since the LDS Church’s heavy involvement in California’s 2008 Proposition 8 campaign.

Mayne was also in a committed, monogamous relationship with his male partner. About a year ago, Mayne decided to end his relationship, for reasons not related to religion. It was, he said, the hardest thing he ever did: harder, even, than burying his parents.

Mayne felt he needed time to heal, and he chose to take a break from relationships altogether. Several months later, Bishop Don Fletcher of the San Francisco Bay Ward asked him to serve as ward executive secretary, a leadership position that serves with the ward lay-pastoral leadership (or “bishopric,” in Mormon terms) to coordinate congregational administrative and pastoral functions and to participate in congregational executive-level decision-making as well.

People who are presumed to be involved in same-sex relationships are allowed to join many individual Christian churches in various denominations in the U.S. Does that include the LDS church in Oakland where Mitch Mayne used to attend church, and more than a relative handful of other Mormon churches?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It has just occurred to me - is English your first language, Agnostic?

That would explain a lot.

 

[Agnostic75]

It has just occurred to me - is English your first language, Agnostic?

That would explain a lot.

I assume that that means that you do not wish to reply to my post #128, where I provided proof that the Southern Baptist Convention does not allow its member churches to allow openly homosexual people to become church members and remain members of the Southern Baptist Convention.

 

[Agnostic75]

If you had read my post, you would see that I did list examples related to BOTH the SBC (which is in your OP) and the Assemblies of God.

That was your post #59. Your first post in this thread was post #46. In that post, all that you said about Southern Baptists was “why a homosexual would want to have anything to do with the SBC is beyond me - the SBC would kill, skin, and eat them alive (and I mean that in the most literal sense possible) if they could.”

You did not make any more posts before your post #59. Where is the example that you were referring to? If there are such examples in the U.S., that would be great, the more the merrier, but I assume that any possible examples would be quite rare, and would not be known by the headquarters of the Southern Baptist Convention.

 

[Agnostic75]

It has just occurred to me - is English your first language, Agnostic?

That would explain a lot.

I will leave the ad hominems up to you. Personal attacks serve only to divert attention away from discussing the issues.