Can someone please explain to me why a "drag show" is suddenly the epitome of evil?

[Twilight Hue]

I don't understand the obsession with it either. Why are conservatives so fixated on it, you think? It's innocent silly entertainment for children.

Conservatives just need a western theme. Like Divine....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Furries are just the worst. Even the dems aren't supporting them (yet).

Thank you for making that jump to assume sexuality. It's what people are doing in assuming drag performers are inherently sexualized, and one many people do with animal costumes. And they do this automatically without thinking it's not unusual for young elementary students to do entirely innocent classroom plays dressed up and acting as animals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Conservatives just need a western theme. Like Divine....

They have to first learn what that Western world really was and how they actually conducted themselves, because what they do is closer to a steampunk fantasy than real life.

 

[Heyo]

Thank you for making that jump to assume sexuality. It's what people are doing in assuming drag performers are inherently sexualized, and one many people do with animal costumes. And they do this automatically without thinking it's not unusual for young elementary students to do entirely innocent classroom plays dressed up and acting as animals.

Just as you did. I didn't say nor imply anything about sexuality.

(And I hope you know me well enough to realize that I wasn't serious.)

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Maybe, but kids also don't exist in a vacuum.

I'm pretty sure if my school had done something like this, it... kids in my country are constantly inundated with sex and gender norms from a very young age. Or at least they were in the 80s and 90s; there are "boy" toys and "girl" toys and all that crap. All a drag show would have done is reinforce sex and gender stereotypes, making nonconformist children that much more miserable as they face a heightened onslaught of mockery from their peers. I got enough crap as a child for "dressing up as something you are not" without stuff like a drag show making it even worse. And it would have made it worse... at least in the absence of an excellent teacher who actively worked to deconstruct sex and gender stereotypes to remind people "now class, just because a X has Y hair and wears Z doesn't mean they are just pretending to be a Q."

The idea of presenting in feminine or masculine dress is different than enforcing gender roles. Feminine and masculine is *necessarily* stereotyping because they're cultural constructs and exist in part due to cultural consensus. The trick is to divorce masculine from man and feminine from woman, and explain to kids (and adults as a lot of adults need this lesson) that dressing feminine doesn't make you a woman, and you don't need to dress femininely to be a woman. And visa versa for men.

 

[muichimotsu]

Rigid dogma seems to negate sympathy, empathy, compassion, etc.

Authoritarian and totalitarian mindsets really do it too. Fascism is coming back "into fashion" in especially colonial cultures in Europe and America

 

[Subduction Zone]

They have to first learn what that Western world really was and how they actually conducted themselves, because what they do is closer to a steampunk fantasy than real life.

That video was meant to parody all of those modern stereotypes of western life. It cracks me up and says nothing about any evils of drag shows.

 

[muichimotsu]

They have to first learn what that Western world really was and how they actually conducted themselves, because what they do is closer to a steampunk fantasy than real life.

Or just revisionist history via that colonial narrative of the "white savior"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or just revisionist history via that colonial narrative of the "white savior"

This is specifically their ideas of what the so-called Wild West was. What they believe is a fantasy, never happened, and closer to fictions of the New York Dentist and Western Author Zane Grey than anything seen in history.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This is specifically their ideas of what the so-called Wild West was. What they believe is a fantasy, never happened, and closer to fictions of the New York Dentist and Western Author Zane Grey than anything seen in history.

Wish we could have more actual wild west stories, can you imagine if Republicans were transported to the wild west only to see how incredibly strict gun control was back then? Or that there were more Chinese cattlemen than white men, let alone black, hispanic and native men.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wish we could have more actual wild west stories, can you imagine if Republicans were transported to the wild west only to see how incredibly strict gun control was back then? Or that there were more Chinese cattlemen than white men, let alone black, hispanic and native men.

Yup. They'd end up friendless likely in jail carrying a gun around, and their heads would probably explode to discover there weren't that many white cowboys. And they didn't tend to be the pillars of morality and rigid goodness. And no matter what, the toughest and strongest, most masculine Republicans would be soft, weak babies compared to the cowboys.

 

[muichimotsu]

This is specifically their ideas of what the so-called Wild West was. What they believe is a fantasy, never happened, and closer to fictions of the New York Dentist and Western Author Zane Grey than anything seen in history.

Yeah, wish we had Western fiction that addressed stuff like women starting up a lot of the early cities, how prostitution was empowering and how one of the first states to grant women right to vote was Nevada, iirc, that was a sticking point for them joining the Union

 

[muichimotsu]

Yup. They'd end up friendless likely in jail carrying a gun around, and their heads would probably explode to discover there weren't that many white cowboys. And they didn't tend to be the pillars of morality and rigid goodness. And no matter what, the toughest and strongest, most masculine Republicans would be soft, weak babies compared to the cowboys.

In fact, upwards of 30% or more were black and Mexican, iirc, which still feels like a small number, but that's probably pretty high in proportional representation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In fact, upwards of 30% or more were black and Mexican, iirc, which still feels like a small number, but that's probably pretty high in proportional representation.

It was basically a job for those who couldn't get a job elsewhere.

 

[muichimotsu]

It was basically a job for those who couldn't get a job elsewhere.

And then was romanticized in a way that seems to even want to whitewash and downplay cowboys and such involved with the Confederacy, from what I gather skimming over various Westerns in the library collection.

Then again, there are some weird titles that I'm not sure what the context is of them: The Preacher's Massacre or Preacher's Bloodbath (not an actual preacher, apparently, it's the character's name)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And then was romanticized in a way that seems to even want to whitewash and downplay cowboys and such involved with the Confederacy, from what I gather skimming over various Westerns in the library collection.

Then again, there are some weird titles that I'm not sure what the context is of them: The Preacher's Massacre or Preacher's Bloodbath (not an actual preacher, apparently, it's the character's name)

It really depends on the era of Western. The earlier cowboy stories tended to be a bit more realistic and far less romanticized. That strongly began with Zane Grey, who remolded the Cowboy and Western themes into what we know today.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sexualizing children is the problem. Good grief.

What part do you consider to be "sexualizing children?"

 

[SkepticThinker]

I grew up watching some guy who called himself “Mr. Dressup” and his gender ambiguous puppet “Casey”.



And I turned out ok.

Mr. Dressup rocks!

 

[SkepticThinker]

You know what I mean by burlesque. Let's not be disingenuous.

American burlesque - Wikipedia

It's basically a strip show. Think Dita Von Teese. That's burlesque.

Surely you don't think that these people are stripping in front of children they're reading books too.

 

[muichimotsu]

It really depends on the era of Western. The earlier cowboy stories tended to be a bit more realistic and far less romanticized. That strongly began with Zane Grey, who remolded the Cowboy and Western themes into what we know today.

We do have a decent amount of Grey, though Louis L'amour seems to be pretty prominent in the genre, plus another author I remember when doing shelf reading that had people continue his work, ala Robert B. Parker and Tom Clancy.