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Can you give me a solid proof

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
No, because you cannot prove that something does not exist .. eg Big Foot, Loch Ness Monster, the Yeti
I can assert many things, like Russell did with his tea pot, you cannot disprove them.
I trust that this is the standard you apply consistently, and that you don't have a special double standard for wild supernatural claims:

"You can only say that T-Rexes are presumed extinct. You can't say that they are extinct for sure."

"I'll never stop looking for my aunt's killers. Yes, she was in hospice with terminal cancer when she died, and the doctors found nothing inconsistent with her dying of cancer, but I can't absolutely rule out the possibility that she was murdered."

"Why did you put eggs on the shopping list? You can't be certain that we're out!"
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
This thread is about proving God does not exist.

I believe that proof will not come here.
It won't come if you are deliberate vague. Anything can be proven to not exist if enough details are given and a test or assessment can be made. Your post isn't an honest question, as you've asked before, along with others.

This is a vanity thread where a theist proclaims victory that a God exists. You surely know your challenge is too vague to be answered, so what is your intention of posting this?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
It won't come if you are deliberate vague. Anything can be proven to not exist if enough details are given and a test or assessment can be made. Your post isn't an honest question, as you've asked before, along with others.

This is a vanity thread where a theist proclaims victory that a God exists. You surely know your challenge is too vague to be answered, so what is your intention of posting this?
No intention from my side. It was a question atheists can't answer i guess
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
But is faith in God objectiv?
No, it is a subjective and unreliable justification to believe in non-rational concepts. Skilled and disciplined minds know better than to use faith.

Isn't faith in God a way of life to become a better human being on a personal level?
Only if your life is so brutal and traumatic that you need illusions to cope.

The proof is in how people change to the better through their practice
Yet people can apply any method to adjust and change behavior so it is allows them to function and perform better. This is called discipline. There are secular methods. Religious methods seem to train the mind to be repetitive and absorbed in an illusion, which shuts out options that allow more freedom of thought.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
You will mostly get slight snide remarks. And maybe how many gods, which god, kind of responses. And some will ask YOU for evidence instead.

You know all the answers, why don't you actually consider them, weigh them up with the evidence instead of making snide remarks?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
OK, using that method prove that the Loch Ness Monster doesn't exist.

btw I do understand how you prove the square root of two is irrational but I fail to understand how I use it to complete the above proof.
I can't disprove the Loch Ness Monster in that way (and I can't disprove all gods) as there are no obviously (or derived) contradictions in the assertions about it.
I can prove, by that method, that there is no pink, invisible dragon in your garage.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
"is there a way for gods in general to be even possible?" first.

The answer is yes, and this can be understood using a conceptual extrapolation of fundamental physics. We live in what is called space-time. In our physical reality of matter and energy, space and time are connected such that the action of one implies the action of the other. It takes so much time to move x amount of space; limited by the speed of light. Light, itself has wavelength and frequency, which are measures of its connected space and time. The laws of physics are bound by the constraint of having space and time, connected into an integrated affect; space-time.

Conceptually, say we took scissors and could separate the space-time concept, that governs the laws of physics. The result will be separated and independent time and separated and independent space. In this scenario, all the known laws of physics would no longer apply, since time and space are no longer restricted to interact in just that one way needed by the laws of physics.

In such a reality, one could move in space without the constraint of time. This would allow one to be anywhere and everywhere in space in zero time. This is traditionally called omnipresence. If one could move in time without the constraint of space you could know what is happening everywhere in space, at the same time; omniscience. This could make the laws of physics the same in all references; universal simultaneity.

If space-time was separated as separate time and separate space, energy will not exist, since photons have space and time connected as wavelength/frequency. In a place of separated space and time, we would have something like frequency without wavelength, and wavelength without frequency, neither which is exactly energy, as we know it in space-time. The religious claim of two different realms, could appear at the dividing line between connected space-time and space and time, not connected. Not connected space-time has all the classic attributes of God such as omnipresence and omniscience. This advanced physics is not new, just now we have a way to contrast it with the known laws of physics; matter/energy physics.

If God existed where space and time are not connected, he would not be easily evident in a world based on matter and energy, since energy is only a part of space-time, but it does not exist where space and time are separate and independent. Science has eliminated the option of God being part of space-time, but not the other option of God being part of where space and time are separated; wrong tools.

If you look at the human imagination, our imaginations allows us to imagine scenarios where space and time are separated. For example, I can imagine flying to the sun in one second, and then placing my lounge chair in the core of the sun to get a nice pre-summer tan. This imaginary scenario can appear as a little movie in my mind, but it violates the speed of light as well as many laws of physics that governs matter. But it can still be generated by the brain via the imagination for consciousness.

The imagination can move around information about matter and energy, apart from matter and energy, in ways that can even violate the laws of physics. However, since matter and energy can only exist in space-time, this imaginary flow in information, where space and time are separated cannot act always within material reality.

This process is connected to consciousness, within an information based realm, where space and time are separated, but by doing so, it is also detached from hard reality; matter and energy, since these can only exist where space and time are connected as space-time. God is often referred to a Spirit instead of matter, with spirit maybe better defined as wavelength without frequency and frequency without wavelength. The imagination is like a bridge between the two realms. The more our imagination departs from space-time and material reality, land of the gods, the closer we are the other side, where time and space have no self limiting connections.

The value of this analysis is we can now conceptually start our material universe way before the BigBang, even before there was any energy or matter in the universe, including zero point energy. All we need to do is place a limit of disconnected space and time. I will do this another time and place.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Can you give me a solid proof that God does not exist?
Your proof must be possible to repeat multiple times, and evidence for God non existence must be so solid that it cant be disproven by believers in God.

I do not ask for woowoo answer, only serious evidence of non existence will be accepted as proof.

And you must be able to show your proof in more than one way.

Can you prove that rainbow colored unicorns that ride pogo sticks and chew bubble gum do not exist?

The reason I ask is because my question is fundamentally the same as yours. In general, it's impossible to prove that a thing does not exist.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The answer is yes, and this can be understood using a conceptual extrapolation of fundamental physics. We live in what is called space-time. In our physical reality of matter and energy, space and time are connected such that the action of one implies the action of the other. It takes so much time to move x amount of space; limited by the speed of light. Light, itself has wavelength and frequency, which are measures of its connected space and time. The laws of physics are bound by the constraint of having space and time, connected into an integrated affect; space-time.

Conceptually, say we took scissors and could separate the space-time concept, that governs the laws of physics. The result will be separated and independent time and separated and independent space. In this scenario, all the known laws of physics would no longer apply, since time and space are no longer restricted to interact in just that one way needed by the laws of physics.

In such a reality, one could move in space without the constraint of time. This would allow one to be anywhere and everywhere in space in zero time. This is traditionally called omnipresence. If one could move in time without the constraint of space you could know what is happening everywhere in space, at the same time; omniscience. This could make the laws of physics the same in all references; universal simultaneity.

If space-time was separated as separate time and separate space, energy will not exist, since photons have space and time connected as wavelength/frequency. In a place of separated space and time, we would have something like frequency without wavelength, and wavelength without frequency, neither which is exactly energy, as we know it in space-time. The religious claim of two different realms, could appear at the dividing line between connected space-time and space and time, not connected. Not connected space-time has all the classic attributes of God such as omnipresence and omniscience. This advanced physics is not new, just now we have a way to contrast it with the known laws of physics; matter/energy physics.

If God existed where space and time are not connected, he would not be easily evident in a world based on matter and energy, since energy is only a part of space-time, but it does not exist where space and time are separate and independent. Science has eliminated the option of God being part of space-time, but not the other option of God being part of where space and time are separated; wrong tools.

If you look at the human imagination, our imaginations allows us to imagine scenarios where space and time are separated. For example, I can imagine flying to the sun in one second, and then placing my lounge chair in the core of the sun to get a nice pre-summer tan. This imaginary scenario can appear as a little movie in my mind, but it violates the speed of light as well as many laws of physics that governs matter. But it can still be generated by the brain via the imagination for consciousness.

The imagination can move around information about matter and energy, apart from matter and energy, in ways that can even violate the laws of physics. However, since matter and energy can only exist in space-time, this imaginary flow in information, where space and time are separated cannot act always within material reality.

This process is connected to consciousness, within an information based realm, where space and time are separated, but by doing so, it is also detached from hard reality; matter and energy, since these can only exist where space and time are connected as space-time. God is often referred to a Spirit instead of matter, with spirit maybe better defined as wavelength without frequency and frequency without wavelength. The imagination is like a bridge between the two realms. The more our imagination departs from space-time and material reality, land of the gods, the closer we are the other side, where time and space have no self limiting connections.

The value of this analysis is we can now conceptually start our material universe way before the BigBang, even before there was any energy or matter in the universe, including zero point energy. All we need to do is place a limit of disconnected space and time. I will do this another time and place.
You seem to have completely misjudged where I was coming from, and incorrectly presumed that I'd just accept a boatload of bad assumptions.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Still one of many. Of the 4200 various gods worshipped around 3800 of them are the ultimate, greatest possible being.

Not sure how that action works but that's how it is, another evidence god or gods dont exist

All the arguments I said are arguments against God would work on any of those "Creator" concepts as long as they held God was benevolent and eternal. I don't know why people argue for the sake of arguing.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
All the arguments I said are arguments against God would work on any of those "Creator" concepts as long as they held God was benevolent and eternal. I don't know why people argue for the sake of arguing.


Wait a second. I may be a bit confused. Are you claiming that God is not benevolent and eternal?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Wait a second. I may be a bit confused. Are you claiming that God is not benevolent and eternal?

I said there are three arguments I know that are formidable against God. I stated them and people started arguing that that there are various other type of God concepts possible. My point was when people believe in God (as in Greatest possible being), those arguments apply no matter what minor differences there are about the Creator (concept).
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
All the arguments I said are arguments against God would work on any of those "Creator" concepts as long as they held God was benevolent and eternal. I don't know why people argue for the sake of arguing.


You don't know why because you are unwilling to accept or even listen to any other take on god except your own. There are various god concepts, yours is NOT the only one.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I said there are three arguments I know that are formidable against God. I stated them and people started arguing that that there are various other type of God concepts possible. My point was when people believe in God (as in Greatest possible being), those arguments apply no matter what minor differences there are about the Creator (concept).
And those arguments do not appear to have ever been refuted. That is why I said that it looks as if you are claiming that God is neither of those two traits.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And those arguments do not appear to have ever been refuted. That is why I said that it looks as if you are claiming that God is neither of those two traits.

I've made threads about them before. I believe they are refuted. I'm just answering the OP, if any arguments there are to disprove God, it would be one of those three. They are formidable ones I know.
 
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