Cardinal Pell and Evolution

[SkepticThinker]

They didn't seem to know even half of what is said in the Bible.

You seem to be projecting here.

 

[1213]

So what is an "evil action?" Is it the same as a "wrong" thing? Or something else?

For example murder is an evil action, because it comes from wanting bad for other.

 

[Audie]

For example murder is an evil action, because it comes from wanting bad for other.

Ah so if you kill someone because you think it's
doing them a favour, then it's
not murder.

 

[SkepticThinker]

For example murder is an evil action, because it comes from wanting bad for other.

I say murder is a bad action because it interferes with another person's well-being. It ends it, in fact.

Thinking about murdering someone and actually murdering someone are two very different things.

 

[1213]

Ah so if you kill someone because you think it's
doing them a favour, then it's
not murder.

Murder is unlawful killing. It means, no one has the right to do it anyway. But, in this case I think crucial thing would be, why the person thinks so. And perhaps he would not be evil, only unrighteous, which is about as bad.

 

[1213]

I say murder is a bad action because it interferes with another person's well-being. It ends it, in fact.

Thinking about murdering someone and actually murdering someone are two very different things.

Thinking and wanting are not the same. And person who wants someone to be murdered is as evil as person who already has done that. Not being successful murderer doesn't make person less evil, only less competent.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Thinking and wanting are not the same.

We think about wanting things.

And person who wants someone to be murdered is as evil as person who already has done that. Not being successful murderer doesn't make person less evil, only less competent.

Disagreed. Thinking about wanting someone dead is completely and wholly different from actually taking that person's life.

You seem to think that thoughts - which we often have no control over - are crimes. I.e. Thought crimes. I couldn't disagree more. We don't put people in jail for their thoughts, thankfully. We put people in jail for their actions.

My neighbors have two super noisy and barky small little dogs that they like to let outside at about 6:00 every single morning where they bark and bark for what seems like forever and always wake me up. Many times, while I'm lying there trying to fall back asleep, I think about how nice it might be if those dogs were gone. I'd actually get a good night's sleep! But thinking that I wish they were gone and actually doing something to make them disappear are two very different things, wouldn't you agree?

Am I evil for wishing the dogs were gone even if I don't actually do anything to make them disappear? I don't think so. In reality, I love dogs and wouldn't ever hurt one. Heck, I feel bad if I kill an insect. Now, if I went out and grabbed the dogs and drove them out into the middle of no where and left them for dead, or I murdered them or something, that action may be an evil or wrong action.

But just thinking about something? I don't think so.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thinking and wanting are not the same. And person who wants someone to be murdered is as evil as person who already has done that.

That's just not true. It is not uncommon for people to sometimes have angry thoughts wanting someone dead. But the overwhelming majority of people do not act on it. Acting on it is a whole different ball game.

 

[1213]

That's just not true. It is not uncommon for people to sometimes have angry thoughts wanting someone dead. But the overwhelming majority of people do not act on it. Acting on it is a whole different ball game.

In Biblical point of view wanting it is as bad. Like in this example:

You have heard that it was said to the ancients: "Do not commit adultery." But I say to you, Everyone looking at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt. 5:27-28

 

[1213]

You seem to think that thoughts - which we often have no control over - are crimes. I.e. Thought crimes. I couldn't disagree more. We don't put people in jail for their thoughts, thankfully. We put people in jail for their actions.

Unfortunately it seems to me that people are punished for wrong thoughts nowadays. But, I don't mean a thought itself is a problem. People may have bad ideas in their mind and it is not necessary a problem, if person doesn't want to do the bad things. The problem is, if person wants to do evil and bad things. It would show person is evil.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In Biblical point of view wanting it is as bad. Like in this example:

You have heard that it was said to the ancients: "Do not commit adultery." But I say to you, Everyone looking at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt. 5:27-28

Yes, that is one of the few errors attributed to Jesus.

 

[Audie]

Unfortunately it seems to me that people are punished for wrong thoughts nowadays. But, I don't mean a thought itself is a problem. People may have bad ideas in their mind and it is not necessary a problem, if person doesn't want to do the bad things. The problem is, if person wants to do evil and bad things. It would show person is evil.

So are you evil?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In Biblical point of view wanting it is as bad. Like in this example:

You have heard that it was said to the ancients: "Do not commit adultery." But I say to you, Everyone looking at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt. 5:27-28

Yes, one of the stupidest things Jesus ever said.

 

[Altfish]

Murder is unlawful killing. It means, no one has the right to do it anyway. But, in this case I think crucial thing would be, why the person thinks so. And perhaps he would not be evil, only unrighteous, which is about as bad.

God did a lot of murdering, how did that get justified?

 

[SkepticThinker]

In Biblical point of view wanting it is as bad. Like in this example:

You have heard that it was said to the ancients: "Do not commit adultery." But I say to you, Everyone looking at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt. 5:27-28

And I say that's crap that doesn't make sense.
I've explained why but you didn't respond.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Unfortunately it seems to me that people are punished for wrong thoughts nowadays

Unfortunately? Judging from the Bible verses you quoted, you apparently think that's a good thing, don't you?

Are they punished for their "wrong thoughts" or are they challenged when they express their thoughts aloud, to other people?

. But, I don't mean a thought itself is a problem. People may have bad ideas in their mind and it is not necessary a problem, if person doesn't want to do the bad things. The problem is, if person wants to do evil and bad things. It would show person is evil.

But even wanting to do a bad thing is a far cry from actually doing a bad thing. Wanting bad things are still just thoughts inside your head. It's actions that are bad or evil, rather than thoughts.

I'm wondering why you had nothing at all to say about the example I gave about my neighbour's dogs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, one of the stupidest things Jesus ever said.

If he said it. One has to remember that the Gospel is only what others said the said. One of the better parables was probably not from him. The parable about the woman caught in adultery and that was saved when Jesus said "Let the one among you that is without sin cast the first stone". That is from John 8. But it isn't. We are always told of all of the manuscripts that Christians have for their Gospels. Well in the oldest known manuscripts of John that parable is not in it. In fact most Bible will have this pointed out in the footnotes.

If something is found in only one of the Gospels there is a good chance that the author of that Gospel made it up. Like Luke's nativity where people have to go to their ancestral homes in a census. Something that did not happen. And it fails on so many levels.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If he said it.

Of course

 

[1213]

Unfortunately? Judging from the Bible verses you quoted, you apparently think that's a good thing, don't you?

I think people should not be judged on basis of their thoughts. Especially nowadays people can easily get bad thoughts, or ideas about thing that are not good. It doesn't necessary mean they want to do something evil, which is why it doesn't make them evil.

I'm wondering why you had nothing at all to say about the example I gave about my neighbour's dogs.

I think it would not have added anything to this, because in my opinion my answer included it.

But, you said: "My neighbors have two super noisy and barky small little dogs that they like to let outside at about 6:00 every single morning where they bark and bark for what seems like forever and always wake me up. Many times, while I'm lying there trying to fall back asleep, I think about how nice it might be if those dogs were gone. I'd actually get a good night's sleep! But thinking that I wish they were gone and actually doing something to make them disappear are two very different things, wouldn't you agree?"

Thinking how nice it would be, is not the same as wanting to kill them.

The only difference in you as a person, between wanting and doing is that it just has not yet happened. That is why person who wants to do bad thing is as bad as person who has already done what he wants.

 

[1213]

God did a lot of murdering, how did that get justified?

I think murder is unjust killing. God has given life, so He has also right to decide how long life He gives. Therefore He is not a murderer.