The guy was on probation for a felony.
The authorities were ostensibly investigating whether he was violating the conditions.
Bad & insulting movies are not illegal.
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Cartones,burn Quran day,film, what next ?
- Thread starter Godobeyer
- Start date
The authorities were ostensibly investigating whether he was violating the conditions.
Bad & insulting movies are not illegal.
jazzymom
Just Jewish
I suspect they will blame the people who attacked the consulate. Those who used the film.
What we know it that the attack probably was already planned and they just used the film as an excuse.
They were going to attack the consulate with or without the film.
jazzymom
Just Jewish
Lots of things are insulting. Muslims in the middle east act in insulting ways too.
Christianity has a saying it it's New Testament.
It goes like this.
Those without sin cast the first stone
Judaism has a saying that goes like this.
What is hateful to do do not do to another.
Islam has a saying that goes like this.
To kill one is to have killed all of man kind and to save one is to have saved all of mankind.
I may not have the wording correct and if so I apologize but the meaning is clear.
Muslims are not sinless in the activity of insulting another.
So please don't try to justify their insult.
There violent behavior is the most insulting behavior.
Our religion should bring out the best in us, not the worst.
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I always worry about "I'm against it but...". In effect; you are in agreement with the grievance but not the reaction and as such - are you saying that the video or cartoons must, by law, not be made?
.
Who cares? And, more importantly, why should anybody? Why are Muslims more important than anyone else - other than having to live or die with their overtly desperate display of public affirmation of their faith - when it comes to the abolishment of hard won freedoms (because our freedoms have been hard won, none were given and they can be lost in a twinkling)? Who is stopping them from loving their prophet? Indeed, more power to their elbow for having the freedom to love who they will.
How weak. How desperately weak. Our media is talking about a princess being photographed with her tits out.
Oh come on. "The west" ignores geography and religion when it comes to "crimes". It focuses on self interest only. Also, is Islam not supposed to be universal? Must I become "Eastern" to embrace it? Are you saying that Islam can only be cultural? BTW, how does Islam deal with crimes against Muslims when the perpetrators are of the same religion but more powerful than the victims? A political argument is not a religious argument unless someone makes it so (ah, the ways of the world).
This may be true but how are we to know? They tell us different. Best, perhaps, not to set too much stock in either.
Again, I assume (because I don't care why someone is trying to erode my freedom, only that they are) that those who perpetrate this violence will be able to justify it using the same writings that you set so much store in. Seems to me that the idea of plucking an eye out, in Islam, means somebody else's.
Now there's a list needing compiling....
Shuddhasattva
Well-Known Member
Ssainhu, please know that I respect the balanced perspective you bring to the table.
However...
Do you deny that the Quran exhorts the believers to wage war against the unbelievers, to bring all people to Allah's true religion™?
Or that, according to the Quran, unbelievers - more than 65% of the world, are going to hell? Believing the 'other,' the 'them' to the exclusive 'us,' is going to be tortured for eternity by one's god is a powerful poison in one's dealings with, and regard for, 'them.'
I suspect that holding such humanistic viewpoints you're rather in a double bind, and thus of two minds:
On one hand, Islam has many noble aspects. Salat, a cultural emphasis on family and family values, etc. etc.
On the other hand... well, you know better than I perhaps.
Is your belief 100% ironclad when you recite kalima?
We can easily call them Christian fundamentalists. But this is more of a grammar thing than anything else. Double suffixes are rather unpopular. ian + ist is awkward. 'am' might be a suffix in a foreign language, but islamist is more grammatically appropriate in English than Christianist.
Please submit an alternate term. As far as I'm concerned, it's the politicized aspect of literal Islam, to the extent that Islam isn't literal or political - it certainly was both at the time its inception and for hundreds of years thereafter - if it has been diluted, it has been by more liberal cultures and cultural influences (ie humanism) and thus, more liberal interpretations. For the record, I regard Christianity as just as insane, but castrated by Humanism.
However...
Do you deny that the Quran exhorts the believers to wage war against the unbelievers, to bring all people to Allah's true religion™?
Or that, according to the Quran, unbelievers - more than 65% of the world, are going to hell? Believing the 'other,' the 'them' to the exclusive 'us,' is going to be tortured for eternity by one's god is a powerful poison in one's dealings with, and regard for, 'them.'
I suspect that holding such humanistic viewpoints you're rather in a double bind, and thus of two minds:
On one hand, Islam has many noble aspects. Salat, a cultural emphasis on family and family values, etc. etc.
On the other hand... well, you know better than I perhaps.
Is your belief 100% ironclad when you recite kalima?
We can easily call them Christian fundamentalists. But this is more of a grammar thing than anything else. Double suffixes are rather unpopular. ian + ist is awkward. 'am' might be a suffix in a foreign language, but islamist is more grammatically appropriate in English than Christianist.
Please submit an alternate term. As far as I'm concerned, it's the politicized aspect of literal Islam, to the extent that Islam isn't literal or political - it certainly was both at the time its inception and for hundreds of years thereafter - if it has been diluted, it has been by more liberal cultures and cultural influences (ie humanism) and thus, more liberal interpretations. For the record, I regard Christianity as just as insane, but castrated by Humanism.
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Godobeyer, based on the premise you proposed here, do you think that all religions without exception — for example: Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and even Pagan religions — are also entitled to be protected from mockery the same way that you propose Islam should be? What about, say, Satanism? Do you think that it should be protected from mockery as well?
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Steve Love
Member
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Are you still trying to equate critique and satire with "bullying"? Really? :sarcastic
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
What about the beliefs of others? What freedom or right is violated or denied by mere speech.
Why should there be a limit? No one is forced to view or listen to anything they deem offensive.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
If someone found Islam to be offensive, would it be okay to ban it? We should be consistent, right?
What if you're at a public place, and a group of people start (verbally) bullying you?
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Truelly concerning that this issue has divided the west and muslims instantly as if to draw battle lines. A group of people make a movie and yet the muslim extremists use it as another excuse to ridecule the west.
Have they not heard of hypocrisy before? Those so offended by criticism should keep to themselves.
Have they not heard of hypocrisy before? Those so offended by criticism should keep to themselves.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
^This*
You see, the "film-maker" and I use the term very broadly here as the "film" is so badly made that it is almost unwatchable; the "film-maker" wanted to get a rise out of Muslims and he got precisely what he wanted. Unfortunately for Islam, far too many Muslims are like wind-up dolls. They are entirely predictable and completely intolerant of any comments that do not put Islam in anything but a glowing light.
It's almost like they are searching for ANY reason to go out and behave badly... right in front of cameras... It give stupid a whole new meaning.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Human natures says no.
waitasec
Veteran Member
context...????
I'm not sure what I would do....it would depend upon circumstances.
But I know what I would not do.
I would not seek out their countrymen, & murder some innocent ones.
Clearly, that would be wrong.
Dingbat
Avatar of Brittania
Is that what happened with the film that was made or the cartoons that were drawn? Not at all, the ones doing the verbal bullying are the muslim extremists.