Cartones,burn Quran day,film, what next ?

[Debater Slayer]

i guess you posted a thread , remember it's name "is islam religion of peace " or something like that .

any way i watch , a video of Yusuf estes , he explain Islam had many meaning .
one of them is peace , and submission ...etc
you find it here :
[youtube]4fYXbVLhiJk[/youtube]
Yusuf Estes,Give your heart and fit all the things

I was strictly going by the dictionary's definition of 'Islam' in Arabic, which shows that the word means 'submission' rather than 'peace'.

Maybe the definition varies depending on how one interprets the teachings of the religion itself, though.

The arabic league want to pass new law in UN , about this issue , they want to establish new law about deny any provokation or mock or insult against any religion (not only Islam )

Would that include, say, Left-Hand Path religions and Pagan ones or not?

 

[Godobeyer]

Would that include, say, Left-Hand Path religions and Pagan ones or not?

i don't know about Left-Hand Path and Pagan .
i don't know if you know that i reply to you here #88 ?

 

[sandandfoam]

I think that the best thing for Muslims to do is to leave Gods justice to God.

If cartoons of The Prophet (pbuh) are blasphemous God does not need anyone to fight His battles for Him.

 

[Debater Slayer]

i don't know about Left-Hand Path and Pagan .
i don't know if you know that i reply to you here #88 ?

Yes, I saw that. My response to it is below.

i don't know your point here , by these quesiton .

as i understand and for my opinion, Islam respect all the religions as the same way ,especially the people of the book ( christians and jews ) had special case ,which mean it's not allowed to mock or insult or voilence any others religions .

for your question about the Satanism,honesly i don't know .
i am curios about your opinion about Satanism religion , is should be protected Satanism ?

If we take "protection" to mean not criticizing it, then no, I don't believe that Satanism, or any other religion, should be "protected" that way. I think that all ideas, including religions, should be open to criticism and not given special exemption just because people may hold strong feelings toward them.

 

[beenie]

I don't understand two things:

1) why certain religious people feel like their religion is so fragile that it can't be questioned or criticized, even respectfully;

2) why people feel the need to insult belief systems they don't believe in? There's no reason to be insulting, IMO.

None of the two above questions justifies violent reactions though.

 

[Caladan]

The arabic league want to pass new law in UN , about this issue , they want to establish new law about deny any provokation or mock or insult against any religion (not only Islam )

It's going to be interesting to see if they can live up to their own challenge and stop running shows about the Jews as the enemies of God and killers of the prophets.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

It's going to be interesting to see if they can live up to their own challenge and stop running shows about the Jews as the enemies of God and killers of the prophets.

Very good point.

 

[crocusj]

i did not said "i am against it but " as justification , don't try to change my words meaning .you can back to her and my reply to understans my point .
she asked why they used voilence ?
i said i am against it's , but maybe it's because of some factures .....etc

OK. You do not agree with their stance in any way at all. Point taken.

Who cares "if we love our Prophet ?" , this ood question , maybe you cares ?

It's not an odd question if it is supposed to somehow mitigate the slaughter of innocents. I don't care if they love their prophet, is the point.

why not ?

Because it's a big world and the idea that one is more important than another is killing thousands...obviously.

maybe you will stopping us

Well, that's pretty insulting. Love your prophet all you want, why should I want to stop you. Though, having said that, you yourself have explained that these people carry out these acts specifically because of their love for their prophet so where do we go from here? Do we capitulate our ideas of freedom in order that we can coincide with a terrorists idea of freedom? Aye, right.

OMG ,
who Weak !!!! if you care about sexy scandels news !!!that's up to you .

I didn't say I paid attention to the media. You used media influence as a reason why people carry out attrocities. I am merely showing that the media do what they do. If those reading it are so uneducated to see the vested interest or manipulation of the information then whose fault is that? Not the slaughtered victims, that's for sure.
If you care about cheap movies, that's up to slaughtering terrorists, apparently.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

This is a culture clash that doesn't really have a resolution. In the West we have learned to not only live with mockery but revel in it. In the East there is still a lot of emphasis placed on personal honor and no tolerance for mockery at all. You look at my culture and see it as too loose and disrespectful. I see yours as too restrictive and oppressive. The law you mentioned is an attempt to impose your culture onto mine and I would resist it.

Yep. It's a lot like the abortion debate, I think. Both sides make good sense. I could argue for either position with the same ease. It all depends on one's fundamental assumptions about reality.

In the case of free speech, I'm happy to see Muslims on the internet now, at least coming to understand the western attitude toward it even if they disagree.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

is not missrespect by the name of freedom to the others faith ?


is not facture to increase the terrorism and extremism agaisnt the west people , especialy americans around the world ?

note :
this is not justify for the over reaction done by some muslims protestors , or the murderer of US ambassodor in Libya .

I think the Muslim community needs to learn the age old rhyme, Sticks and Stones may break my bones but your words can never heart me.

In the "west", everyone has the freedom not for only speech but to practice their religion as well.

And about the increase of Terror against America, these videos and cartoons are not government funded, so i don't understand why the need to hate a country.

With the violent protests, especially those that happened in non-islamic countries, was a big disgrace for Islam it self, no one in the west would have even cared about the video or even the cartoons until the Muslims started running around like a pack of animals.

Where was the protest against the Killing of the Americans in Libya by the so called moderate Muslims?

How many Muslims protested against these violent protests?

Muslims are not special, I dont need say things differently just because i can offend a Muslim. If you have confidence in your religion, you can let these little things slide.

And Muslims insult my religion every time they call me words like Kufr (Kafir), which is in the Koran, you dont see the "Kafirs", having violent protests against the Koran do you, Do you see any Idol worshippers in Islamic countries clashing with police?

 

[Kerr]

2) why people feel the need to insult belief systems they don't believe in? There's no reason to be insulting, IMO.

I think people forgets something about freedom. It comes with responsibility. While we should not pass a law against insulting religion, we shouldnt go out of our way to insult it either. I have the freedom to be a jerk, but I shouldnt be one.

 

[Looncall]

I think people forgets something about freedom. It comes with responsibility. While we should not pass a law against insulting religion, we shouldnt go out of our way to insult it either. I have the freedom to be a jerk, but I shouldnt be one.

On the other hand, the religious are demanding respect for their religions, not earning that respect. I think it is a duty to oppose those arrogant demands. Considering the irrationality of much religious zeal, mockery is the only tool available.

The religious need to realize that no-one who does not follow their religion owes that religion any duty of respect at all. To non-followers, that religion is not a true account of reality.

 

[gnostic]

You see, the "film-maker" and I use the term very broadly here as the "film" is so badly made that it is almost unwatchable; the "film-maker" wanted to get a rise out of Muslims and he got precisely what he wanted. Unfortunately for Islam, far too many Muslims are like wind-up dolls. They are entirely predictable and completely intolerant of any comments that do not put Islam in anything but a glowing light.

It's almost like they are searching for ANY reason to go out and behave badly... right in front of cameras... It give stupid a whole new meaning.

And no one knows better about "stupid" than the Holy Fool... :jester5:

...or so, Mr Grumpy :149: tells me...

I wonder where I put my prescriptions of green and red pills. Maybe, I should pay Dr Angelo a visit.

Shuddaup! I've got fricking damn headache.

 

[Riverwolf]

On the other hand, the religious are demanding respect for their religions, not earning that respect. I think it is a duty to oppose those arrogant demands. Considering the irrationality of much religious zeal, mockery is the only tool available.

The religious need to realize that no-one who does not follow their religion owes that religion any duty of respect at all. To non-followers, that religion is not a true account of reality.

But should bullying be the manifestation of such opposition?

After all, those who are bullied often react violently and irrationally. At the extreme end, I'd wager that many (not all) school shootings are (among many other factors, of course) triggered by bullying.

In addition, should those who commit these oppositions do things that risk the lives of those who don't want anything to do with it? Is it right to risk someone else's life for an ideal?

 

[outhouse]

in the end

those who act with agression and violence are the guilty ones period.

anything else is a poor excuse

 

[Riverwolf]

in the end

those who act with agression and violence are the guilty ones period.

anything else is a poor excuse

Oh, I agree.

But those who taunt, poke, prod, etc. with the intention of provoking a violent response are responsible, as well.

I specifically call them "responsible", not "guilty."

 

[outhouse]

Oh, I agree.

But those who taunt, poke, prod, etc. with the intention of provoking a violent response are responsible, as well.

I specifically call them "responsible", not "guilty."

whole heartedly agree. If you poke a someone, expect a poke back.

in this case though I feel there is misplaced hatered for the USA just because it was posted here, by someone not native to the country.

I also blame those that are violent for not taking that into context. I do think they let their emotions get the best of themselves as a nation/culture

 

[outhouse]

I cannot condone this behaviour and find it barbaric to say the least and a embarrassment to humanity

Pakistan official offers $100,000 reward for killing of maker of anti-Prophet Muhammad film - World News

A Pakistani government minister on Saturday announced a $100,000 bounty for the killing of the person who produced an online film that denigrates the Prophet Muhammad.

 

[Riverwolf]

whole heartedly agree. If you poke a someone, expect a poke back.

in this case though I feel there is misplaced hatered for the USA just because it was posted here, by someone not native to the country.

I also blame those that are violent for not taking that into context. I do think they let their emotions get the best of themselves as a nation/culture

They really hate us, and hatred is very good at suspending rationality.

I cannot condone this behaviour and find it barbaric to say the least and a embarrassment to humanity

Pakistan official offers $100,000 reward for killing of maker of anti-Prophet Muhammad film - World News

A Pakistani government minister on Saturday announced a $100,000 bounty for the killing of the person who produced an online film that denigrates the Prophet Muhammad.

You're too nice to it.

 

[outhouse]

They really hate us, and hatred is very good at suspending rationality.



You're too nice to it.

having been to third world countries, I understand that poverty is the norm.

If they were not poverty stricken and war torn. I would expect different results


the whole state of affairs is sad, all because some nut job expressed his views which seems to have started a chain reaction that effects these poor people.

It seems those in power are playing off he hype as well instead of rationally explaining it away for what it is.