Catholics Blame Gays for their Pedophile Problem

[AxisMundi]

Palm your face all you will. If my desire to see these people punished for their insidious crimes against children bothers you, then so be it.

We obviously disagree on how a pedophile should be treated, if they are convicted of these crimes. Obviously, you and the current pope see their actions as imminently forgiveable. If you think that a fair sentence for these lowest of criminals would be to have them shag their own golf balls at the driving range, then more power to you.

If it makes you feel better to label my position as "barbaric", or "uncivilized", I'll just have to live with that shame. In my world, people that abuse kids to this degree will pay a price for satisfying themselves in such a manner. And in my world, that price is high indeed.

Let's see, there's an ad hominem, another, a few strawmen...

BTW, having a person raped IS barbaric, there isn't any way you can prove or say otherwise.

 

[AxisMundi]

Without more information, I can't answer that, but I would ask you - is it justice?

I asked first.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If I set my granddaughter in the corner for a timeout, is that revenge or punishment?

Are you putting her in the corner to dispense justice? If not, then you're question is irrelevant, as I was talking about meting punishment as an aspect of justice. If so, then you need to reexamine your motivations and goals for punishing your grand-daughter.

 

[AxisMundi]

Not at all. Feel free to answer the question. What do you feel is an appropriate way to address these "gentlemen"?

... and "ladies".

Since you asked, hoping this typing isn't in vain to be deleted as off-topic...

I advocate a super-max style of prison across the board. Three simple squares a day, an hour a day for sunshine and a shower, and no contact with other prisoners. No state-paid television, weights, degrees, congenial and/or other visits or the plethora of other amenities convicted criminals enjoy today.

A simple 5 by 8 23 hours a day. Don't think this is punishment? Remember this conversation the next time you have to wait in line for an extended period. Boredom has been used as an effective interrogation technique for millenia.

As this would actually BE a punishment, a restructuring of sentencing guidelines providing for shorter sentences combined with the lack of niceties listed above, along with the legalization nationwide of pot, which contributes more than half of the non-violent prison population currently, would see a decrease in the costs we see today in incarcerating convicts. Not to mention other concerns such as medical services for inmates (and officers) injured by other inmates.

As for child rapists, once their sentence is done they need to be removed from society to ensure they do not attack again. For them I advocate state run institutions set far away from population centers where these psychotic criminals can spend the rest of their lives far removed from their victims.

Prisons, in their current forms, certainly do not provide any form of punishment nor do they act as a deterent, especially to the psychosis that is pedophilia.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Let's see, there's an ad hominem, another, a few strawmen...

You're doing the talking here. Perhaps you could point out (specifically) the ad hominem? The closest I came is putting you in league with the Pope. That is not an ad hominem, but feel free to miscategorize it however you see fit. While you're at it, tell me what the strawman arguments are? Remember, there should be at least two ad hominems and three or more strawmen.

You are making claims to avoid answering the question. EDIT: I see that you did finally give us your take on how to handle pedophiles in post #85. I address your response a couple of posts later.

BTW, having a person raped IS barbaric, there isn't any way you can prove or say otherwise.

For the record, I have not espoused having these guys raped. That is actually a strawman on YOUR part (at least, as it pertains to myself). On the other hand, I do not care if it happens to them.

So, when you reply, I'm looking for you to show me at least two ad hominems that I have perpetrated against you in the previous post, and three (or more) strawmen from the same post.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I asked first.

If you want an answer, then you'll have to give me more information. Like ATS, I have no idea why you put her in the corner.

Based on your past posts, I can only imagine that she would have had to kill someone in cold blood, to merit such a terrible fate.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

If I set my granddaughter in the corner for a timeout, is that revenge or punishment?

Juxtaposed with -

A simple 5 by 8 23 hours a day. Don't think this is punishment?

I'd say that you think that putting your daughter in the corner is "punishment". I would say that it is definitely punishment, it may also be revenge (I don't know the state of your mind), and it may or may not be justice.

Now, I've answered your question, it would be nice to see you answer mine. Why did you put her in the corner, and is it "justice"?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... and "ladies".

Since you asked, hoping this typing isn't in vain to be deleted as off-topic...

I advocate a super-max style of prison across the board. Three simple squares a day, an hour a day for sunshine and a shower, and no contact with other prisoners. No state-paid television, weights, degrees, congenial and/or other visits or the plethora of other amenities convicted criminals enjoy today.

A simple 5 by 8 23 hours a day. Don't think this is punishment? Remember this conversation the next time you have to wait in line for an extended period. Boredom has been used as an effective interrogation technique for millenia.

As this would actually BE a punishment, a restructuring of sentencing guidelines providing for shorter sentences combined with the lack of niceties listed above, along with the legalization nationwide of pot, which contributes more than half of the non-violent prison population currently, would see a decrease in the costs we see today in incarcerating convicts. Not to mention other concerns such as medical services for inmates (and officers) injured by other inmates.

As for child rapists, once their sentence is done they need to be removed from society to ensure they do not attack again. For them I advocate state run institutions set far away from population centers where these psychotic criminals can spend the rest of their lives far removed from their victims.

Prisons, in their current forms, certainly do not provide any form of punishment nor do they act as a deterent, especially to the psychosis that is pedophilia.

So, you finally answered my question as to just how you propose dealing with these pedophiles. You would lock them in a room (effectively, giving them a "time out") and at the end of their sentence, you would not release them back into society.

I've never been raped, and I certainly wasn't abused as a child. Regardless, I have to say that your answer is (in my opinion) nowhere close to "justice" for the children that have been physically beaten, raped and abused. You're not even in the ballpark.

If you wish to characterize me as being "barbaric" for not caring what happens to these criminals, then I would have to characterize you as being sympathetic to their cause. Not the cause of receiving a weak punishment, but the cause of satisfying their own urges at the expense of a defenseless child.

On this subject, you and I most definitely disagree.

After a moment of reflection, I don't think I could even categorize your position as being "soft on the crime of pedophilia". In my opinion, it doesn't really rise to that level. I have to ask you if you could look one of those victims in the face and tell them that the punishment for the priests that abused them as children (and some of them are still children) is a stiff "time out" and no college degree at taxpayers' expense.

 

[Falvlun]

I must admit, I'm pretty surprised to see people whose stances I generally respect actually advocating rape as the only truly appropriate way to punish rapists.

An eye for an eye is satisfying on some level, but it doesn't really solve things: the wounded child will still be wounded. Besides the logistical problems, it just seems morally grotesque.

 

[logician]

Our justice systems and penal systems are grossly corrupt and unfair, which is why we have one of the highest incarcerations rates in the world for "advanced" countries. Our prisons are overcrowded, because we give stiff sentences to non-violent offenders(usually drug users), which means violent repeat offenders can usually get out of prison early to repeat their crimes due to the overcrowding.

We need to reserve long prison sentences for those who deserve them - violent offenders, and find other ways to punish lesser crimes. That way we will deal more effectively with all types of criminals, and also keep society safer from the truly dangerous crimimals.

 

[dust1n]

Our justice systems and penal systems are grossly corrupt and unfair, which is why we have one of the highest incarcerations rates in the world for "advanced" countries. Our prisons are overcrowded, because we give stiff sentences to non-violent offenders(usually drug users), which means violent repeat offenders can usually get out of prison early to repeat their crimes due to the overcrowding.

We need to reserve long prison sentences for those who deserve them - violent offenders, and find other ways to punish lesser crimes. That way we will deal more effectively with all types of criminals, and also keep society safer from the truly dangerous crimimals.

It seems like fining marijuana users would create **** loads of revenue (a smoker's tax if you will), opposed to incarcerating them and paying for thier lives for ten years.

But I digress.

 

[Father Heathen]

I've been trying to avoid this off-topic tangent, but I would like to point out that I have doubts your theory about rape-victim psychology is correct. I should think that many rape victims would want to avoid feeling sympathy and compassion for their attackers, which would inevitably result from having them suffer the same fate.

You honestly think it's normal for rape victims to feel sympathy and compassion for their attackers? I have some close friends who have been raped, and they certainly harbor no warm fuzzy feelings for those who've hurt them so greatly. In case you weren't aware, rape is slightly more severe than giving someone a wedgy.

If someone throws a rock through your windshield, isn't it better to have the windshield replaced than to have someone else throw a rock through their windshield?

The point is, the guilty party owes a debt to their innocent victim(s).

Also, who is going to rape the rapist who rapes the rapist? Where does it end? Are you willing to step up yourself if there is an unpunished rapist raper wandering free? (Although that raises the question - who is going to rape you?)

It wouldn't be a endless cycle because the only one in the wrong is the one who has violated the rights of an innocent person. But like I said I wasn't advocating rape as some sort of state mandated punishment. I'm just saying it wouldn't bother me if it happened, because they got their comeuppance. Why shouldn't they come to understand first hand the damage they've done to others? I just don't understand why people are trying to portray the most heinous of filth as some sort of wayward puppies who just need a hug. Why should I feel obliged to care? My sympathy and compassion are exclusively for the innocent victims, I wouldn't want to cheapen it by extending it to the very ones who've so selfishly hurt and harmed them. If people behave as sub-humans, then I regard them as sub-humans.

 

[footprints]

While I appreciate your insinuating that your education somehow makes your opinion more valid than mine, I will say this once again. Like Father Heathen (and a couple of others), I simply do not care if the pedophile gets mistreated (to any degree) while he is incarcerated. I do not care if his sheets are not washed twice weekly. I do not care if he has poor dental hygene. I do not care if he isn't provided a well lighted reading area. I do not care if they have to wear argyle socks with wingtipped shoes.

My opinion is only ever more valid than yours in medical circles, academia or a court of law, otherwise all opinions are the same. If enough of the public made such an outcry as you are making, any intelligent government would throw all credible knowledge out of the window and change the laws accordingly. It is how democracy works and governments know what it takes to be elected, votes.

Let us follow your logic down the line a bit. A paedophile molests a child. They are caught and held accountable for that crime. You come along and decide to rape the peadophile or have somebody else do it in your place, so now you and possibly another person get charged with rape and are held responsible for your crime. Somebody else in society believes in an eye for an eye like you, so they rape you or have somebody else rape you. Now those people are charged and held accountable for their actions. Pretty soon everybody who believes in an eye for eye would be in gaol raping each other.

At some stage, sanity must prevail, and it does, this is why we have a legal system run by professional people. When you have a law which breaks the law, you may as well have no law at all. The main reason why decent countries abolished the death penalty, for they understood, this just made them a murderer and broke their own laws.

Get it? I don't care. Can you follow that?

Yes, I get that. Don't you get it, every decent person on the face of the planet would think like you, even if it were for a fleeting second or a thought held in the back of their mind. They would know, though they would not act upon this thought. They would get over the position of temporary insantity and resume more rational thought.

I don't want the scumbags released back into society. Not in five years, not in ten years, not in twenty years. Not ever. And I don't care what happens to them in the meantime, while they wait to die.

So we should just shoot everbody who breaks the law? The speeding driver who has no thought or respect for the law who puts childrens lives at danger everytime they break the law, the people who leave little children near brain dead, crippled and paralysed? These people are no better than paedophiles.

What about the parent who would raise a hand or more to children. Scum of the earth, their abuse leaves children just as mentally and physically damaged as the act of paedophilla, so we should just shoot every abusive parent.

Oh the list is endless, I get the point where you are coming from.

I appreciate your efforts as a mental health care professional, in treating the victims of these crimes. I wish the absolute best of luck in trying to heal the wounded psyches of these horrendous crimes. I have tremendous sympathy for the victims.

Personally I don't think you do appreciate the efforts of mental health. It is due to people with an eye for an eye attitude, that many people do not seek help, or seek help the wrong way, as in an eye for eye as they take the law into their own hands. It is believers in an eye for eye policy which stops governments injecting as much into mental health as is currently needed.

In order to understand why, something is happening in society, paedophiles must be treated and our knowledge of them increased. By doing this, hopefully we will be able to abolish this hiddeous crime from society. Failure to find the cause of this problem, will just see the problem repeated, time and time again, as the same elements in society (environment) create the next paedophile.

Many paedophiles are victims of sexual abuse themselves. So when and how exactly do you determine when the sexually abused victim, should loose your sympathy, compassion and your support, where instead of receiving your empathy they receive your abuse?

On the other hand, the pedophile himself (or herself) has, in my view, completely surrendered any footing from which to plead for leniency.

Then you must also hold the same view, to every crime which leaves a child in the same traumatised state, or those even worse? Like speeding and drink driving?

 

[AxisMundi]

So, you finally answered my question as to just how you propose dealing with these pedophiles. You would lock them in a room (effectively, giving them a "time out") and at the end of their sentence, you would not release them back into society.

I've never been raped, and I certainly wasn't abused as a child. Regardless, I have to say that your answer is (in my opinion) nowhere close to "justice" for the children that have been physically beaten, raped and abused. You're not even in the ballpark.

If you wish to characterize me as being "barbaric" for not caring what happens to these criminals, then I would have to characterize you as being sympathetic to their cause. Not the cause of receiving a weak punishment, but the cause of satisfying their own urges at the expense of a defenseless child.

On this subject, you and I most definitely disagree.

After a moment of reflection, I don't think I could even categorize your position as being "soft on the crime of pedophilia". In my opinion, it doesn't really rise to that level. I have to ask you if you could look one of those victims in the face and tell them that the punishment for the priests that abused them as children (and some of them are still children) is a stiff "time out" and no college degree at taxpayers' expense. You are a cruel one, Axis. Cruel indeed.

Every victim I've talked to is more than satified with a prison sentance followed by a removal from society in general.

Be careful you do not over-react without consulting those who have been victimized.

 

[AxisMundi]

You're doing the talking here. Perhaps you could point out (specifically) the ad hominem? The closest I came is putting you in league with the Pope. That is not an ad hominem, but feel free to miscategorize it however you see fit. While you're at it, tell me what the strawman arguments are? Remember, there should be at least two ad hominems and three or more strawmen.

You are making claims to avoid answering the question. EDIT: I see that you did finally give us your take on how to handle pedophiles in post #85. I address your response a couple of posts later.


For the record, I have not espoused having these guys raped. That is actually a strawman on YOUR part (at least, as it pertains to myself). On the other hand, I do not care if it happens to them.

So, when you reply, I'm looking for you to show me at least two ad hominems that I have perpetrated against you in the previous post, and three (or more) strawmen from the same post.

So it's not a personal attack to equate me with a Pope who hides pedophiles, gotcha.

BTW...

... and put into a cell with a person that would treat them just as they did the kids that they abused.

Post #6.

 

[darkendless]

Every victim I've talked to is more than satified with a prison sentance followed by a removal from society in general.

Be careful you do not over-react without consulting those who have been victimized.

A prison sentence will never make up for rape.

Such carelessness in the respect for anothers well-being should not be so easily dealt with. Their arrogance should be met with a wooden box and a 6ft deep hole.

 

[footprints]

A prison sentence will never make up for rape.

Such carelessness in the respect for anothers well-being should not be so easily dealt with. Their arrogance should be met with a wooden box and a 6ft deep hole.

Said very sarcastically: I just love people of old testament mentality. And to think some atheists are against it and oppose it at every corner.

 

[darkendless]

Said very sarcastically: I just love people of old testament mentality. And to think some atheists are against it and oppose it at every corner.

I just think a lack of respect for people negates ones right to live amongst civilized humanity.

I'd love to see every rapist die slowly and painfully but i'd settle for them never breathing the air of the civilized human ever again. Rapists and murders are a waste of organs.

 

[footprints]

I just think a lack of respect for people negates ones right to live amongst civilized humanity.

Well there goes the overwhelming majority on the face of the earth. By that account there may be 1 or 2 thousand people left. The Dalai Lama and a few who live in monasteries.

I'd love to see every rapist die slowly and painfully but i'd settle for them never breathing the air of the civilized human ever again. Rapists and murders are a waste of organs.

Yeah that is what religous zealots say as well. I bet you are please that your thinking aligns with theirs.

So what do you think of speeding drivers, as just one other example? What these people do to humanity shouldn't be tolerated either, should it? All the damage and carnage they cause?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

The point is, the guilty party owes a debt to their innocent victim(s).

And to society, as a whole.