Chastity or Promiscuity? Which is best and why?

[nPeace]

People marrying other people that they aren't really compatible with, in a long term way.

That's true too. That is a very important point.

Back in the olden days things were very different. Most marriages barely outlasted child bearing years. That's because simple infections were untreatable. Gestation and child birth were very dangerous. Most working conditions were very unsafe. People died young all the time. As a result, marriage tended to be a relatively short term commitment.

I think that depends on which part of the world you live. Things differ from place to place.

Also, gender roles were clearly defined. As long as the man supported the family and the woman managed the home and kids, what they got up to outside that didn't matter all the much. Especially for men, since they didn't have to admit to being pregnant in a world before DNA tests.

Yes. Values became quite low for some time now.

But here's the bottom line.
What used to be a short term contract with clear parameters has become a much bigger deal. Fifty years of a "mutually supportive and committed" relationship, with rules that are more like guidelines than laws, has changed the definition of marriage for the foreseeable future. That's not what the word marriage meant for most of human history.
Back in Scripture days, marriage meant a guy getting an all purpose domestic appliance. As many as he could afford. Then it became official sanction for a human breeding pair. Then it became a legal agreement between two parties.
Now it's something else. Society is just plain different from what it used to be, and so is marriage.

They're better than the olden days.

Agreed. Things has changed drastically, from the beginning of time.

Nowadays, it's better if people don't get married until they're experienced. And marry someone compatible, even if they're both of the same sex. The fact that so many religionists think that's wrong is evidence, enough for me, that religion is fiction.
Tom

I agree it is best to get married when experienced. One can better handle responsibility, and care for children, if they have any.
Would you mind me asking, why you think people of the same sex should marry. Do you see marriage as an arrangement that some random dude or dudette came up with? Why is marriage necessary, in your view?

 

[Skwim]

To answer the thread question ...

"Chastity or Promiscuity? Which is best and why?"

Neither, find a path in between

Ah, yes!

"Chastity ..............................................Phasity.........Phasicuity..........Cromsity.........Cromiscuity...................................... Promiscuity
.................................................................................................................................↑
..........................................................................................the path between

.

.

 

[nPeace]

Chasity runs the risk of a seriously unhappy life and a potential misfire in terms of fleshing out a person's sexual satisfaction. It accounts for the Ted Haggards of the world.

Promiscuity allows any individual the ability to explore themselves and eventually arrive at an identity they can be happy and satisfied with regardless where that lifestyle takes them. The risks can all be mitigated effectively.

Promiscuity = debauchery.
Drunkenness doesn't necessarily kill anyone, nor does promiscuity.
Everyone is free to "Do as thou wilt."

 

[Polymath257]

What do you mean by, "God does not approve of that marriage"?
If God approves of marriage, but does not approve of that marriage, then it would mean that that marriage never happened... as far as God is concerned.
So it would be up to the person(s) to take action to breach the gap they created between Themselves and God, by ending that so-called marriage, and ungodly relationship.
Otherwise, it's their choice to forget about God.

OK, if they care for each other, I don't care what an imaginary God has to say. They should stay together if they want to. And I disagree that the marriage never happened. God doesn't get to decide: those involved do.

 

[Polymath257]

Well, it is clear you can't explain it from an evolutionary perspective, so the Biblical perspective seems to be the only alternative explanation, and correct one.

I simply don't know the evidence that would be relevant. And no, the Biblical alternative isn't the only other possibility.

The question of when culture became part of the human legacy, along with art, etc is an interesting one. I would suspect that religion and marriage ceremonies came about the same time as cave paintings.

My *guess*? These are all spandrels from having large enough brains to deal with complex interactions and, eventually, language (which may, itself be a spandrel).

 

[Polymath257]

Promiscuity = debauchery

Let's go to the dictionary.

Promiscuity involves having more than one sex partner.

Debauchery involves excessive indulgence in drugs or sex.

From a strict viewpoint, your claim is false. it is quite possible to have more than one sex partner and for it not to be excessive.

Drunkenness doesn't necessarily kill anyone, nor does promiscuity.
Everyone is free to "Do as thou wilt."

I'd limit that to staying within (negotiated) agreements and not hurting others. But yes.

Morality is, as far as I am concerned, ultimately about the happiness and health of *people*. If what you do isn't hurting anyone, it is allowed. If it is actually helping people be happy and/or healthy, it is encouraged.

Sex should be encouraged as a healthy part of being alive.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I am actually shocked and appalled, when I watch a court case, and in ever case, the accused was involved in an extramarital affair.

People should explore polyamory more. ;-)

 

[Guitar's Cry]

lack of respect towards one's spouse? How does that happen, do you think?

By not accepting them as individuals with a complexity of elements that make them human.

 

[nPeace]

OK, if they care for each other, I don't care what an imaginary God has to say. They should stay together if they want to. And I disagree that the marriage never happened. God doesn't get to decide: those involved do.

Hey. You asked a question about God. What did you expect me to say... what you want to hear?
I already knew you don't care, so why are you telling me this?
Volunteering information... okay.

Why are you disagreeing with an imaginary God, and saying what an imaginary God doesn't get to decide? Polymath257... are you okay? LOL.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I should have read this before my previous reply. If that is your idea of marriage then, its pointless carrying this on. Either 1) you are not married or 2) You are NOT happily married.

I, personally, am happily married and my wife and I have been practicing polyamory successfully for nigh on over a decade. I get that polyamory often doesn't work well for some people/couples, but my experience has shown me that a happily married couple can be sexually active outside the marriage and it can add positive dimensions to the marriage if the relationship has excellent communication skills and they trust one another.

 

[Polymath257]

Hey. You asked a question about God. What did you expect me to say... what you want to hear?
I already knew you don't care, so why are you telling me this?
Volunteering information... okay.

Why are you disagreeing with an imaginary God, and saying what an imaginary God doesn't get to decide? Polymath257... are you okay? LOL.

No, I actually asked a question concerning your values. If a couple has a successful relationship, but one concludes it is not in God's favor, you think they should break off the relationship.

I am saying that to expect them to break off an otherwise successful (by their terms) relationship is heartless and cruel. And any God that would want such is evil.

 

[Earthtank]

I, personally, am happily married and my wife and I have been practicing polyamory successfully for nigh on over a decade. I get that polyamory often doesn't work well for some people/couples, but my experience has shown me that a happily married couple can be sexually active outside the marriage and it can add positive dimensions to the marriage if the relationship has excellent communication skills and they trust one another.

In an effort to save time and summarize everything i previously said. You are free to wordplay all you want, none of my business and live your life as you wish but, that is still not a marriage.

 

[Polymath257]

Aside from the views that my marriage isn't a valid marriage, we still haven't answered the question:

What actual benefits are produced by 'chastity'?

As far as I can see, it is being esteemed by others that are similarly inexperienced and impoverished in their relationships.

 

[Polymath257]

In an effort to save time and summarize everything i previously said. You are free to wordplay all you want, none of my business and live your life as you wish but, that is still not a marriage.

By whose definition? Yours?

 

[nPeace]

I simply don't know the evidence that would be relevant. And no, the Biblical alternative isn't the only other possibility.

The question of when culture became part of the human legacy, along with art, etc is an interesting one. I would suspect that religion and marriage ceremonies came about the same time as cave paintings.

My *guess*? These are all spandrels from having large enough brains to deal with complex interactions and, eventually, language (which may, itself be a spandrel).

This is a marvel Polymath257.
You admit out right you don't know, you can only guess.
Then you argue no (basically you know) the Biblical alternative isn't the only other possibility.
LOL
Polymath257, it's times like these, talking to you is healthy. LOL.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

In an effort to save time and summarize everything i previously said. You are free to wordplay all you want, none of my business and live your life as you wish but, that is still not a marriage.

Which is all, of course, wordplay.

My wife and I fight over the remote control, negotiate terms with just who is going to take the garbage out, and play blanket tug-o'-war at night. Trust me...we're married. ;-)

Oh, and we have the legal papers to prove it.

 

[Polymath257]

This is a marvel Polymath257.
You admit out right you don't know, you can only guess.
Then you argue no (basically you know) the Biblical alternative isn't the only other possibility.
LOL
Polymath257, it's times like these, talking to you is healthy. LOL.

Oh, I am certain there are other alternatives than the Biblical one. The Islamic one, the Hindu one, the Shinto one, etc.

The only relevant one is the one that fits the evidence. And the Biblical one doesn't do that. But, if you want to debate that, go to Science&Religion, not here.

 

[Polymath257]

Which is all, of course, wordplay.

My wife and I fight over the remote control, negotiate terms with just who is going to take the garbage out, and play blanket tug-o'-war at night. Trust me...we're married. ;-)

Oh, and we have the legal papers to prove it.

It always amazes me how people want to deny the validity of someone else's marriage.

It just seems rude to me. I don't deny the validity of theirs.

 

[nPeace]

No, I actually asked a question concerning your values. If a couple has a successful relationship, but one concludes it is not in God's favor, you think they should break off the relationship.

I am saying that to expect them to break off an otherwise successful (by their terms) relationship is heartless and cruel. And any God that would want such is evil.

Why do you keep adjusting what you say?
Let me ask you this. Suppose that a couple has been married and one becomes convinced that God does not approve of that marriage. Would you expect them to renounce the marriage even if they otherwise love and care for each other?
A person can only respond to what you say, you know. They can't respond to what you are thinking, or what you had in mind to say..

Note... but one becomes convinced that God does not approve of that marriage...
That's the part I responded to. Okay?

 

[Vinayaka]

Aside from the views that my marriage isn't a valid marriage, we still haven't answered the question:

What actual benefits are produced by 'chastity'?

As far as I can see, it is being esteemed by others that are similarly inexperienced and impoverished in their relationships.

I think it's an individual matter. I've seen a few arranged marriages that I'm guessing were between 2 chaste individuals, although the young couple may have had premarital sex with each other, I wouldn't know for sure. In some cases where the marriage happened so fast I doubt if they hooked up prior. These are the ones where families meet, interviews are held regarding compatibility, and experience matchmaker counselors are used. I'm not talking about the hastily forced marriages for economic reasons here.

In my very limited observations, these marriages seem to have worked out rather well, with few divorces and happy lives. Most of these I know are in the 50+ years range. But there are a couple of exceptions.

I know it's just anecdotal evidence, and I don't offhand know of any great research into such cultural marriages.

One advantage is you can grow together sexually, no comparisons to previous lovers and all that. Less wondering 'what if?'
Pretty difficult study really.