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Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

Are you awaiting Christ's return?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 17.2%
  • No

    Votes: 34 58.6%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • I'm Fence sitting

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • Just a popcorn question

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • Definitly never

    Votes: 8 13.8%
  • He has Come

    Votes: 10 17.2%

  • Total voters
    58

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said: The Bible is not the only Book of God.

Baha'u'llah did not claim to be Christ, He claimed to be the return of the Christ Spirit in another man.

There is nothing you can do to change history or God's Will. It's been done.

Jesus is not coming back to earth, EVER.


That's the problem. The NT has the name "Jesus" implied or maybe even stated as the one returning. They say things like when the "Lord" returns, or use the word "Christ", the "Lamb", the "Lion of Judah" and so on. For Christians, all these other names and titles refer to Jesus. And sorry, but it does seem like Baha'is have to turn and twist things to make them refer to their prophet. Plus, I mentioned this a few times, the very next coming of "Christ", "The Anointed One" would have been Muhammad. And I really don't see adequate prophecies that point to Muhammad.
Show me the verses in the NT has the name "Jesus" implied or even stated as the one returning. It is assumed by Christians, not implied in the text, but show me some of those verses and I will explain why they do not apply to Jesus returning.

When they say things like “when the "Lord" returns” that definitely applies to Baha’u’llah, who was the Glory of the Lord. It is smattered all throughout the OT. Jesus came in the station of the Son, Baha’u’llah came in the station of the Father.

There are some verses that refer to Muhammad but I am no Bible expert. ;)
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
That's the problem. The NT has the name "Jesus" implied or maybe even stated as the one returning. They say things like when the "Lord" returns, or use the word "Christ", the "Lamb", the "Lion of Judah" and so on. For Christians, all these other names and titles refer to Jesus.

That a Christian thinks all these names refer to Jesus only, is a veil they have placed upon themselves, it is the veil that the Jews still have against Jesus the Christ.

CG these passages just show us that it is the Station of Jesus as the Christ that returns, not the body of Jesus. Remember Peter confirms Jesus is the 'Christ' and Jesus says the flesh amounts to nothing; Lets post a couple;

Hebrews 9:28 "so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him"

The 'Annointed One' Returns. Notice that Salvation is a key here;

"Universal Salvation in the Bahá'í Faith - Bahá'u'lláh's stated aim is not the salvation of an elitist group but that of the entire world whereby every soul on the planet will experience the bounty of knowing God's revelation: “I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” (Gleanings 243) It is also worth mentioning in this context that the Bahá'í Faith eschews the dichotomous saved/damned, chosen/rejected, people of truth /people of the lie mentality that we find in some religions. On the contrary "...all human beings are the sheep of God and He is the kind Shepherd. This Shepherd is kind to all the sheep, because He created them all..." (Selections From the Writings of `Abdu'l-Bahá 298)

That it is Jesus in the Station of the Christ, Son of God that returns, is also shown in these passages;

Matthew 16:27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels,......."

Mark 8:38"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

Notice Son comes in the Glory of the Father. (Glory of God, Baha'u'llah)

Regards Tony
 

Neb

Active Member
Your MISINTERPRETATION of the Bible does not prove anything… The Bible proves that Baha’u’llah was the return of Christ and it does a darn good job: William Sears, Thief in the Night
You are very good in cutting and pasting, but who is William Sears compared to the apostles?

Good luck trying to disprove all those prophecies.
you mean postdiction/hindsight?

All you have is a “hope” that Jesus will return someday. It might make you feel all warm and fuzzy on a cold winter night but that is all it will do.
“hope” is the right word

“For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?” Romans 8:24

“But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.” –Romans 8:25
 

Neb

Active Member
Besides that, you just denigrated all scriptures of all the other religions that are not based upon the Bible by calling them FAKE;
Now, this is the true meaning of your favorite fallacy, the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization mixing it with strawman fallacy. You are generalizing an argument between your belief and my belief with other beliefs. You are attacking a strawman by means of generalizing or including other beliefs as part of your rebuttal when it was NOT even mentioned, the other beliefs, in the argument that I have presented. The argument was between your belief and my belief.

Do Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and all other religions claim they are the Christ? No, they don’t, because they are smart enough to know that it will only create conflicts with the Bible and that it will only stigmatize their belief as inconsistent with their own truth. IOW, they are NOT like your belief mixing it with other beliefs and that’s the reason why you are so confused most of the time with your answers.

Each religion has its own truth, not that they are the truth based on the Bible but as THEIR OWN TRUTH, and should adhere to it and NOT mix it with others to avoid conflicts and confusions. So, the lesson here is, if it’s not in the Bible then don’t force it because it will only stigmatize your belief as fake like FAKE NEWS.
 

Neb

Active Member
Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. are all fake to you… That is Christian arrogance.
Does political correctness applies to religions too? If you can compromise your belief just for the sake of being politically correct with other religions then do so but twisting, adulterating the Bible so you could please Christians to join or agree with your movement, not gonna happen.
 

Neb

Active Member
There is only one man called Jesus Christ but there is more than one Christ Spirit.
but NOT Bahaullah.

“If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” John 7:17

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.” John 14:23

“He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” John 14:24


More misinterpretation of the Bible…


Famous last words…. “it’s not in the Bible.” The return of Jesus in the Person of Baha’u’llah is all throughout the Bible, OT and NT:


William Sears, Thief in the Night
Your MISinterpretation of the Bible is where you are right now.
 

Neb

Active Member
Sorry, but you are wrong. Baha’u’llah was the Comforter/Spirit of truth. This is one of the biggest mistakes Christians ever made because it resulted in a misinterpretation of John 14, 15 and 16. The Holy Spirit did come upon those who believed in Jesus at Pentecost, but it came upon Baha’u’llah later. God is not limited in how many times He can send the Holy Spirit. There is no shortage.
This is how you MISinterpret the Bible. The Comforter and the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit, based on the Bible, are all the same or ONE and NOT different beings. Do you understand this?

Now, from your own “INTERPRETATION” of the Bible, “Baha’u’llah was the Comforter/Spirit of truth”, right? If Bahaullah was the “The Comforter and the Spirit of Truth” then he must be the Holy Spirit too based on the Bible, right?
But your “INTERPRETATION” of Acts 2 “The Holy Spirit did come upon those who believed in Jesus at Pentecost, but it came upon Baha’u’llah later.”

How could Bahaullah, as the Holy Spirit “came upon Bahaullah later”? There must be a "misinterpretation" here, right? I know, it’s the Bible again
More misinterpretation of the Bible…
 

Neb

Active Member
Arrogance does not apply to Manifestations of God because they are not ordinary men. They speak for God, so they have to speak with great authority. Jesus also did this.
The meaning of “Arrogant” is: having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

Claiming to be the “all the Names of God. It is Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, Moses, Abraham, Krishna, Muhammad ....etc”
Yes the Word is Baha'u'llah, it is all the Names of God. It is Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, Moses, Abraham, Krishna, Muhammad ....etc.
Very arrogant!!
 

Neb

Active Member
There is enough evidence to sink a ship. You just cannot SEE IT because you are blinded by your misinterpretation of the Bible. I have been down this road many times before with other Christians. It is always the same…. “the Bible says…” What is arrogant is to insist only you know how to interpret the Bible correctly.
I do not claim that at all, but I can assure you that Bahaullah was never or NOT in the Bible at all and you don’t need a Christian to know this. You can google it and see if bahaullah’s would come out in any Bible concordance and here’s the link, see it yourself. Bible Search: bahaullah
 

Neb

Active Member
Baha’is do not NEED the Bible.
Concocting bahaullah’s geneology linking it to King David, just to verify it’s existence in the Bible or in the real world, yeah, who needs the Bible, right?

We have the Writings of Baha’u’llah. Those and what Baha’u’llah DID on His mission are the greatest proof of who He was.
What do you think Bahaullah could do more compared to these verses?

Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!

Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,

Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Phil 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Bahaullah could do nothing more!

“It is finished” -John 19:30.

“so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.” -Hebrews 9:28
 

Neb

Active Member
But you do not have Jesus walking the earth again, and you never will. ;)

Of course, since you have the Bible, you should know that:

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
You can quote the Bible like you really understood it but I see your kinds so many times already so nothing is really new to my eyes anymore.
Even satan could quote the scriptures too.

Mt 4:6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“ ‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’’”
 

Neb

Active Member
“From the beginning of the world until the present time each ‘Manifestation’ 1 sent from God has been opposed by an embodiment of the ‘Powers of Darkness’.

This dark power has always endeavoured to extinguish the light. Tyranny has ever sought to overcome justice. Ignorance has persistently tried to trample knowledge underfoot. This has, from the earliest ages, been the method of the material world.

In the time of Moses, Pharaoh set himself to prevent the Mosaic Light being spread abroad.

In the day of Christ, Annas and Caiaphas inflamed the Jewish people against Him and the learned doctors of Israel joined together to resist His Power. All sorts of calumnies were circulated against Him. The Scribes and Pharisees conspired to make the people believe Him to be a liar, an apostate, and a blasphemer. They spread these slanders throughout the whole Eastern world against Christ, and caused Him to be condemned to a shameful death!
Commentary
In the case of Muhammad also, the learned doctors of His day determined to extinguish the light of His influence. They tried by the power of the sword to prevent the spread of His teaching.

In spite of all their efforts the Sun of Truth shone forth from the horizon. In every case the army of light vanquished the powers of darkness on the battlefield of the world, and the radiance of the Divine Teaching illumined the earth. Those who accepted the Teaching and worked for the Cause of God became luminous stars in the sky of humanity.
More Commentaries
Now, in our own day, history repeats itself.

Those who would have men believe that religion is their own private property once more bring their efforts to bear against the Sun of Truth: they resist the Command of God; they invent calumnies, not having arguments against it, neither proofs. They attack with masked faces, not daring to come forth into the light of day.

Our methods are different, we do not attack, neither calumniate; we do not wish to dispute with them; we bring forth proofs and arguments; we invite them to confute our statements. They cannot answer us, but instead, they write all they can think of against the Divine Messenger, Bahá’u’lláh.

Do not let your hearts be troubled by these defamatory writings! Obey the words of Bahá’u’lláh and answer them not. Rejoice, rather, that even these falsehoods will result in the spread of the truth. When these slanders appear inquiries are made, and those who inquire are led into a knowledge of the Faith………………….

This is the result of the slanderer’s work: to be the cause of guiding men to a discovery of the truth.

We know that all the falsehoods spread about Christ and His apostles and all the books written against Him, only led the people to inquire into His doctrine; then, having seen the beauty and inhaled the fragrance, they walked evermore amidst the roses and the fruits of that celestial garden.

Therefore, I say unto you, spread the Divine Truth with all your might that men’s intelligence may become enlightened; this is the best answer to those who slander. I do not wish to speak of those people nor to say anything ill of them—only to tell you that slander is of no importance!

Clouds may veil the sun, but, be they never so dense, his rays will penetrate! Nothing can prevent the radiance of the sun descending to warm and vivify the Divine Garden.

Nothing can prevent the fall of the rain from Heaven.

Nothing can prevent the fulfilment of the Word of God!

Therefore when you see books and papers written against the Revelation, be not distressed, but take comfort in the assurance that the cause will thereby gain strength.

No one casts stones at a tree without fruit. No one tries to extinguish a lamp without light! ………….

And I say unto you that no calumny is able to prevail against the Light of God; it can only result in causing it to be more universally recognized. If a cause were of no significance, who would take the trouble to work against it!

But always the greater the cause the more do enemies arise in larger and larger numbers to attempt its overthrow! The brighter the light the darker the shadow! Our part it is to act in accordance with the teaching of Bahá’u’lláh in humility and firm steadfastness.”
Paris Talks, pp. 102-106
More Commentaries but NOT in the Bible.

They opened threads up for conversation.
We are conversing, are we not?
One cannot discredit something that is true. ;)
That is the truth, and that's why, based on the Bible and NOT from bahaullah's commentaries, you cannot prove that Christ came for the 2nd time already and there is NO literal resurrection.
It already has. Jesus is not going to return, EVER. It is about time people were told the truth. They deserve to know.
"People deserve to know" that based on bahaullah's commentaries, the Lord Jesus came already, it's false. Based on the Bible the Lord Jesus has not yet, it's True. Simple true or false.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
You are very good in cutting and pasting, but who is William Sears compared to the apostles?

I see William Sears would be an Apostle. in this day he was called a 'Hand of the Cause'. He had great insight into the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
The meaning of “Arrogant” is: having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

Claiming to be the “all the Names of God. It is Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, Moses, Abraham, Krishna, Muhammad ....etc”Very arrogant!!

This is your misunderstanding. You would likewise be convicting Christ of the same thing when Christ tells of His Station.

Christ said before Abraham 'I Am and the Father and I are One. This is the Station of a Messenger of God, the Word. It is not Arrogance, it is our Lord Speaking.

But when Christ and Baha'u'llah talk of their own selves it is different. Christ says why do you call me good, there is none good but God. Baha'u'llah says just as Jesus also says; “When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”

Then Baha'u'llah addresses the remarks you have just made against Him;

“Certain ones among you,” He declared, “have said: ‘He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.’ By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs… My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will…. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors….”

Your refutations are not based in the knowledge of what Baha'u'llah has written, they are also what Christ has said.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Phil 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

The 'Glory of God' the Father is Baha'u'llah. It is the tongue of the Baha'is that does confess this is so.

“so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.” -Hebrews 9:28

Salvation of the world now lays in the Message of Baha'u'llah.

"O my God, the God of bounty and mercy! Thou art that King by Whose commanding word the whole creation hath been called into being; and Thou art that All-Bountiful One the doings of Whose servants have never hindered Him from showing forth His grace, nor have they frustrated the revelations of His bounty. Suffer this servant, I beseech Thee, to attain unto that which is the cause of his salvation in every world of Thy worlds. Thou art, verily, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. – Baha’u’llah, Baha’i Prayers, p. 146.

Salvation: For One and All

Regards Tony
 
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