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Christ is not some "hippy"
- Thread starter SolaScriptura
- Start date
lunamoth
Will to love
:slap:
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
In my mind, we could summarize something of the hippy spirit in the Beatles' song "All you need is love". Its catchy, it sounds nice, until you think about it more deeply and you realize that they are not speicifying what love is, or exactly how they mean it. The same with peace, John Lenon's song comes to mind, "Imagine"; for him peace meant no heaven, no hell, no transcendence, no values, no concern for truth...a brotherhood, a common humanity, but rooted in what? On the face of it sounds appealing, until we push deeper and find only sentiments.
Why love the other, especially in his most distant and removed forms, those who don't see me or can't reciprocate, those with whom I fail to identify or might even be moved to hate? Can we really be moved to this kind of radical love with a purely ordinary or immanent view of the world?
I agree that Christ is not a hippy. He too said that "all we need is love" but he went forward and defined that love by taking it to the Cross. He showed that creative love is the founding and sustaining principle of the cosmos and the very being of God. He is creating a common "brotherhood of man" because he descended from the heights to become our brother and to become the basis for a new ontological unity of humanity rooted in faith and forgiveness. He is the one who "lives for the other" and he has given himself over fully, bringing all into one body through the sharing of his flesh and blood, living both wholly for man and for the Father.
He also asks us to "imagine" peace, but its not a neutered peace that stands agnostic to the truth, but rather arises on account of it, a peace that is really eternal and final and worth all of our effort and self- sacrifice, precisely because we are wedged between heaven and hell.
In short, the reason that Christ is not a hippy is, I think, not really for the reasons you mentioned. Christ is all about love and harmony, but he defines it with significant more depth, as an action and a reality that places us between the transforming tensions of both judegment and mercy. It is not whimsical or catchy dreaming, not an eroticization of all relationships, not a life lived "in the moment", but the moment lived out in anticipation of what is to come.
Why love the other, especially in his most distant and removed forms, those who don't see me or can't reciprocate, those with whom I fail to identify or might even be moved to hate? Can we really be moved to this kind of radical love with a purely ordinary or immanent view of the world?
I agree that Christ is not a hippy. He too said that "all we need is love" but he went forward and defined that love by taking it to the Cross. He showed that creative love is the founding and sustaining principle of the cosmos and the very being of God. He is creating a common "brotherhood of man" because he descended from the heights to become our brother and to become the basis for a new ontological unity of humanity rooted in faith and forgiveness. He is the one who "lives for the other" and he has given himself over fully, bringing all into one body through the sharing of his flesh and blood, living both wholly for man and for the Father.
He also asks us to "imagine" peace, but its not a neutered peace that stands agnostic to the truth, but rather arises on account of it, a peace that is really eternal and final and worth all of our effort and self- sacrifice, precisely because we are wedged between heaven and hell.
In short, the reason that Christ is not a hippy is, I think, not really for the reasons you mentioned. Christ is all about love and harmony, but he defines it with significant more depth, as an action and a reality that places us between the transforming tensions of both judegment and mercy. It is not whimsical or catchy dreaming, not an eroticization of all relationships, not a life lived "in the moment", but the moment lived out in anticipation of what is to come.
Mr. Hair
Renegade Cavalcade
Honestly, I suspect that the Christ that can be talked about is not the eternal Christ.
3.14
Well-Known Member
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Then I'm gonna pass on the gift of salvation.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Where?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I just fruballed this post, but for some reason, my comments were not recorded. Anyway, I really liked what you had to say and I agree with you 100%. That's why I fruballed you.
Hence the phrase, "God fearing Christian".
tomspug
Absorbant
Your theology needs correcting.
And as a final note, the word "convert" never appears in the Bible as a verb, only as a noun. Because changing the heart is only something GOD can do, not us. We are SO consistently arrogant!
Wonder why prophecy referred to him as "The Prince of Peace" and his birth was declared as "peace and good will toward men"?
You're reading the wrong Bible, buddy. God is the judge, not Jesus. Jesus came to save, to restore humanity, to bring peace and love. Show me where in scripture this view of Jesus is supported?
And as a final note, the word "convert" never appears in the Bible as a verb, only as a noun. Because changing the heart is only something GOD can do, not us. We are SO consistently arrogant!
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
(Matthew 5:39) "But I say to you, That you resist not evil: but whoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also."
(Matthew 6: 14-15) "If you forgive others the wrongs they have done to you, your Father in heaven will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive the wrongs you have done."
(Matthew 7: 1) "Do not judge others, so that God will not judge you, for God will judge you in the same way you judge others, and he will apply to you the same rules you apply to others."
Heneni
Miss Independent
The alternative is to judge yourself first, take out the splinter. When you have no splinter in the eye...then you can clearly see whats in the eye of the other. I think there is some value to the concept of judge not like a hypocrite.
The bible also says that whatever we dont forgive is not forgiven. It can only mean that we have to learn how to judge correctly, and not judge while we have a splinter in the eye. Judge yourself first, let god remove the splinters, then learn how to judge correctly, and ultimately that is what must happen, because if god says..whatever you dont forgive is not forgiven, it must mean that we are able to JUDGE correctly.
EDIT: I also think that IF anything is not forgiven its not because we hold a grudge, but rather that whatever is not forgiven, cannot be forgiven. That would imply that some things can not be forgiven. What kind of things can not be forgiven? Blasphemy against the HS.
Heneni
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Comicaze247
See the previous line
lol, SolaScriptura sounds a lot like someone who was recently banned, who also thought opinions differing from his/hers were wrong. I forget the name though, haha. The one who posted about the US being "indisputably" a Christian nation and that he/she was "just putting it out there." Same "speech" patterns, same word usage, same typing style (hitting enter between almost every sentence). If I'm right, I applaud your persistence, but I have to say, I STILL disagree with you.
For one, I don't think you even understand what hippies were if you attribute only the "loving and non-judgmental" part to being a hippie. Hippies were against working and against "the man." I'm pretty sure Jesus wanted people to be productive members of society as well as being loving and non-judgmental. So the fact that you're calling him a hippie just shows how black and white you view the world.
For one, I don't think you even understand what hippies were if you attribute only the "loving and non-judgmental" part to being a hippie. Hippies were against working and against "the man." I'm pretty sure Jesus wanted people to be productive members of society as well as being loving and non-judgmental. So the fact that you're calling him a hippie just shows how black and white you view the world.
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lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Well, he did get his head anointed with expensive, fragrant oil.
His feet got washed now and then too.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Jesus was against "the man." He critiqued the establishment. That's what got him crucified. As for working and "being productive," the gospels tell us that he called on fishermen and tax collectors and told them to leave their jobs and follow him. After that, the stories show him drinking (and making) wine at a wedding, feeding the masses with a few loaves and fish, and cursing a fig tree because it didn't have fruit. They don't say anything about him working in the traditional sense.
I'm half-joking (and half-serious) about the working part, but I'm fully serious about the being against "the man" part. Jesus was a long-haired, sandal-wearing, anti-establishment fellow who hung out with the outcasts of society and preached love and tolerance, even for our enemies. I don't know whether he was a "hippy" or not. That to me seems pretty time and place specific. But Jesus was definitely a liberal.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
He tore up the Temple. In the Jewish context of that time, I don't know how much more anti-establishment you can get.