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Christians, why do you hate Gays?
- Thread starter R34L1TY
- Start date
Alceste
Vagabond
In Canada, the United Church is the second largest Christian denomination, after the Catholics, and have a long history of performing gay marriages and allowing openly gay ministers to officiate.
Basically, what it boils down to for Christians is that you have Biblical verses commanding you to "love your neighbour" AND Biblical verses commanding you to discriminate against homosexuals, and you have to pick one. You simply can't do both. It's not cherry picking, but discernment and the application of reason.
I think you are right, Alceste. It seems to me Jesus removed the law, so the older biblical verses we annulled. It seems to me that Paul introduces them again causing a conflict and a need to pick one or the other. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how it seems.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Why would you think innkeepers would be called upon to perform a marriage at all?Actually I had read the article wrong, sorry, I thought the innkeepers were sued for refusing to perform a ceremony for same sex marriage. yes this would be wrong.
as far as denying the use of a reception hall, well if they agreed to the state laws, then they were wrong to deny the use of their facility. I misread and I am sorry.
Lady B
noob
where do you see Jesus removed the law? and older verses were annulled? and alceste where is the verse that says we are to discriminate against homosexuals? and is loving ones neighbor mean acceptance of all behaviors? should we tolerate the pedophiles too? or Is it hateful to not do so?
Lady B
noob
well In my mind I saw like a wedding chapel, not inn, I concede I totally misread it, sorryyyyyyyyyyyy
no-body
Well-Known Member
I would imagine as long as they are not practicing Christ would tell you to forgive them and live with them too.
Lady B
noob
agreed, But we are not talking about non-practicing homosexuals....
Alceste
Vagabond
If I remember right, there are only two verses upon which Christians base their religious justifications for discriminating against homosexuals. One is in Leviticus and and another Paul's letters. The verse commanding Christ's followers to love their neighbour is attributed to him in the gospels.
Liberal Bible scholars generally agree that the NT abolishes the Mosaic laws, which I'm sure you'd agree with if you've read them yourself.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. It's not a "behavior" any more than your own sexual orientation is a "behavior".
The moral difference between child abuse and consensual adult sexual relationships is obvious, and attempting to equate the two is offensive.
Alceste
Vagabond
If you went to church on Sunday and your minister told you heterosexuality was sinful, would you be content to live your whole life without the joy and comfort of romantic love? It's a pretty crappy sales pitch, if you ask me. "It's OK to be gay, as long as you spend your entire life alone, and never experience love or sex".
Lady B
noob
I do not equate them, The church though does equate both as sinful behaviors period. not orientation, begotten trait. I do not agree even the most liberal bible scholars agree Jesus abolished the law. He abolished the sacrificial demands the penalty for breaking the laws, which is eternal death. he said himself he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.If I remember right, there are only two verses upon which Christians base their religious justifications for discriminating against homosexuals. One is in Leviticus and and another Paul's letters. The verse commanding Christ's followers to love their neighbour is attributed to him in the gospels.
Liberal Bible scholars generally agree that the NT abolishes the Mosaic laws, which I'm sure you'd agree with if you've read them yourself.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. It's not a "behavior" any more than your own sexual orientation is a "behavior".
The moral difference between child abuse and consensual adult sexual relationships is obvious, and attempting to equate the two is offensive.
Lady B
noob
I do not follow the ministers word, I follow God's, therefore that minister would be a liar and He would not last long.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Do you keep dietary law and avoid blended fabrics, then?
Jesus, Himself, never said one word about homosexuality. That is why I question it. And Paul did say some things that were almost opposite of what Jesus taught.
(From another post: As for the "Hate the sin, love the sinner" statement. When Christians say that, they are not only speaking of homosexuality, but anything else, including themselves. Christians do know that they are not perfect (or at least I hope most of them do). But right or wrong, you can't really force people to accept you or everything you (or I) do- all you can really do is get them to tolerate you. And if a Christians truly believes that it is a sin, then you can't really get them to accept it- but they do accept (or they say they accept) the person- if they truly follow God's words.
As for legislation, It seems to be split almost in half between people accept gay marriage and don't.
Lady B
noob
If I do not, this does not prove the law was abolished, It proves I am a sinner in need of a savior, Thank God I have one, or I would be under the penalty for breaking each and every law.
Alceste
Vagabond
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Except that Jesus actually did say that what you eat doesn't make you unclean.
Lady B
noob
Actually, it's more like 54% for gay marriage, 42% against. Not quite the middle.
How can that be true when more than 30 states opposed it many times, some of these states have a very liberal majority also. It is not only christians and conservatives opposing gay marriage, I really hope you all know that.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I just skimmed through the last couple pages, so I don't know what all's been said, but here is my thoughts. Clearly, all kinds of sexual activity is condemned in the Bible. As a kid growing up Catholic, I got the feeling that my feelings for girls was evil and I should stop that. I was five!
Society in the late 50's and early 60's pushed little boys to pretend to hate girls and all that mushy stuff. Then puberty hit. I was long gone from the Catholic influence so the natural thing to do was try my best to do it. Doing it with girls was a problem, however, because I was taught it was wrong and dirty. So I was still filled with guilt. I liked looking at pretty girls, the less clothes the better. In those days Playboy magazine showed only boobs. That was enough to do what I needed it to do.
Then the crazy late 60's, everything was okay to do, and to do it a lot. But, I was so guilt ridden from what religion and society taught me, that I still had problems really enjoying sex, plus I was clueless on what to do. Then boys started liking me, yuck, unthinkable! And that was exactly right. I didn't realize it, but I was a trained, engrained homophobic.
What's funny is that we all need love. We all crave the human touch. Religion has to condemn it or we'd all be doing it like monkeys. But, it condemns all of it. Some say don't even do with yourself, because it involves fantasy. Religion says don't do it unless you're married because it's a sacred gift with only one special person out of the billions of people on the Earth. I don't know but every beautiful girl in the world looks like a sacred gift to me. So, naturally, religion has to make "desire" and "lust" a bad thing. I understand. We can't have a big, strong dominate male taking all the good looking girls for himself and spreading his seed everywhere. That would be so animalistic, and so unfair to the rest of us.
When I was a Christian in the mid 70's everybody I knew was a closet sex addict or a guilt ridden wannabe sex addict. It didn't matter what your sexual preference was, we were all horny ********!
So let's do an experiment. If you had your eyes closed and some kind of sexual contact with a million different people, it would probably feel great. What if afterwards we showed you the video we just post on You Tube and some were Black, some were Asian, and some were Latin. You'd probably say, "awesome!" What if number 100,001 was a dude dressed up to look like a lady? All of a sudden you'd be repulsed. You'd feel violated. Why? It still felt good when it happened didn't it? It would be because we are taught what is right and wrong and what is an "abomination" to the Lord.
I believe religion is a construct of people to control the behavior of people. If you want to believe in Jesus and the Bible then, not only homosexuality is bad, but any lust of any person other than your spouse is "evil" and "corrupt." Like Jesus said, "He that is without sin cast the first stone." For the Christian gay person it's only the self-righteous ******** that are ballsy enough to cast that first stone. And, they're sicker than all of us! The sweet goody goody Christians will tell you they love you and that Jesus loves you. They'll say, "Do you want me to pray for you?"
But all of us are sexual beings and if we don't have lust for someone, we're sicker than the lusters. So I don't blame homosexuals for being true to themselves. What are the"normal" Christians going to do? The ones that only lust after the opposite sex. Are they going to be hypocritical and want to burn the gay Christian at the stake or love them? I think it's time for love and to admit we all lust and crave sex. If you want to pretend you don't, and fill yourself with guilt, that's your problem. However, at the same time, I thank God for the rules of society and religion to keep that big guy from getting all the girls and from taking the one I got. We need rules, but gays are challenging where we draw the line. Society says move it. What will Christians say?
Society in the late 50's and early 60's pushed little boys to pretend to hate girls and all that mushy stuff. Then puberty hit. I was long gone from the Catholic influence so the natural thing to do was try my best to do it. Doing it with girls was a problem, however, because I was taught it was wrong and dirty. So I was still filled with guilt. I liked looking at pretty girls, the less clothes the better. In those days Playboy magazine showed only boobs. That was enough to do what I needed it to do.
Then the crazy late 60's, everything was okay to do, and to do it a lot. But, I was so guilt ridden from what religion and society taught me, that I still had problems really enjoying sex, plus I was clueless on what to do. Then boys started liking me, yuck, unthinkable! And that was exactly right. I didn't realize it, but I was a trained, engrained homophobic.
What's funny is that we all need love. We all crave the human touch. Religion has to condemn it or we'd all be doing it like monkeys. But, it condemns all of it. Some say don't even do with yourself, because it involves fantasy. Religion says don't do it unless you're married because it's a sacred gift with only one special person out of the billions of people on the Earth. I don't know but every beautiful girl in the world looks like a sacred gift to me. So, naturally, religion has to make "desire" and "lust" a bad thing. I understand. We can't have a big, strong dominate male taking all the good looking girls for himself and spreading his seed everywhere. That would be so animalistic, and so unfair to the rest of us.
When I was a Christian in the mid 70's everybody I knew was a closet sex addict or a guilt ridden wannabe sex addict. It didn't matter what your sexual preference was, we were all horny ********!
So let's do an experiment. If you had your eyes closed and some kind of sexual contact with a million different people, it would probably feel great. What if afterwards we showed you the video we just post on You Tube and some were Black, some were Asian, and some were Latin. You'd probably say, "awesome!" What if number 100,001 was a dude dressed up to look like a lady? All of a sudden you'd be repulsed. You'd feel violated. Why? It still felt good when it happened didn't it? It would be because we are taught what is right and wrong and what is an "abomination" to the Lord.
I believe religion is a construct of people to control the behavior of people. If you want to believe in Jesus and the Bible then, not only homosexuality is bad, but any lust of any person other than your spouse is "evil" and "corrupt." Like Jesus said, "He that is without sin cast the first stone." For the Christian gay person it's only the self-righteous ******** that are ballsy enough to cast that first stone. And, they're sicker than all of us! The sweet goody goody Christians will tell you they love you and that Jesus loves you. They'll say, "Do you want me to pray for you?"
But all of us are sexual beings and if we don't have lust for someone, we're sicker than the lusters. So I don't blame homosexuals for being true to themselves. What are the"normal" Christians going to do? The ones that only lust after the opposite sex. Are they going to be hypocritical and want to burn the gay Christian at the stake or love them? I think it's time for love and to admit we all lust and crave sex. If you want to pretend you don't, and fill yourself with guilt, that's your problem. However, at the same time, I thank God for the rules of society and religion to keep that big guy from getting all the girls and from taking the one I got. We need rules, but gays are challenging where we draw the line. Society says move it. What will Christians say?
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
You realize that Christians form the vast majority of the American electorate? You can't have it both ways.
Especially when you throw in political conservatism.