College Orders Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality, Or Be Dismissed

[brbubba]

If someone doesn't have a basic understanding of science, they don't have any business in the field.

HOWEVER, there are plenty of seminaries and divinity schools that might be happy to take her into their many ministry degrees.

She's demonstrated her ability to comprehend the material, obviously she was in good academic standing at the time. On a personal level she has demonstrated an ability to not believe the material. Does that mean that she will practice what she preaches though? And does the school have the right to make that determination?

Her intent is not, or should not, be at issue. It's not the job of university officials to read minds or to see the future. The issue is her inability to successfully complete the program.

If you look at the available evidence, that's exactly what she is doing! The university is attempting to glean how she will behave in a real world setting based upon her convictions.

 

[Magic Man]

If you look at the available evidence, that's exactly what she is doing!

No, she's not. That's the problem.

The university is attempting to glean how she will behave in a real world setting based upon her convictions.

No, they're telling her she has to conform to the standards of the program from which she's trying to graduate.

 

[brbubba]

No, she's not. That's the problem.

No, they're telling her she has to conform to the standards of the program from which she's trying to graduate.

This is what she challenging:

When a student’s progress is not satisfactory on interpersonal or professional cri-
teria unrelated to academic performance, she or he may be placed on remediation
status.

She's essentially challenging their ability to discriminate based on these "other" factors. If you think having carte blanche to judge a student on a personal level is part of the program then be my guest, but in my book thats discrimination.

 

[Autodidact]

Not "personal," br, "interpersonal." (or professional.) In other words, you can pass the test, but you can't demonstrate the skills needed. And yes, it is their job to make sure she can do that. Kind of like a surgeon who can pass the test, but not perform surgery.

 

[brbubba]

Not "personal," br, "interpersonal." (or professional.) In other words, you can pass the test, but you can't demonstrate the skills needed. And yes, it is their job to make sure she can do that. Kind of like a surgeon who can pass the test, but not perform surgery.

Ok so I will concede that technically, which no one was directly pointing out, she is in violation of the student handbook or curriculum as you call it. Yet when that could include anything I find that somewhat disingenuous.

 

[Smoke]

If you look at the available evidence, that's exactly what she is doing!

I suggest you take a better look.

 

[Smoke]

Ok so I will concede that technically, which no one was directly pointing out, she is in violation of the student handbook or curriculum as you call it. Yet when that could include anything I find that somewhat disingenuous.

The curriculum is not the student handbook. It's her course of study.

 

[brbubba]

I suggest you take a better look.

It's semantics. I say she is successfully completing the program of study, you say she isn't because complying with the student handbook is part of the program of study.

The curriculum is not the student handbook. It's her course of study.

Then she is successful in her course or program of study. Which is it?

 

[Magic Man]

Yet when that could include anything

No, it couldn't.

 

[Magic Man]

It's semantics. I say she is successfully completing the program of study, you say she isn't because complying with the student handbook is part of the program of study.

Well, duh. Since when is not complying with the student handbook not part of the program of study?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The student hand book is that part of the college regulations that apply to every student. It is required to be read in combination with all learning contracts and programs.

It is not in any way optional.

 

[brbubba]

No, it couldn't.

Read my quote from the brief again. How do you define satisfactory?

Well, duh. Since when is not complying with the student handbook not part of the program of study?

Student handbooks regularly have rules and regulations that are not always abided by, but violating those rules does not always have a direct affect on your program of study or academic standing. Her grades are not being affected here.

Like I said semantics. You tomato...

Anyway moving on...

The student hand book is that part of the college regulations that apply to every student. It is required to be read in combination with all learning contracts and programs.

It is not in any way optional.

Who said they were optional? I'm questioning whether they have a right to judge on personal standing without any prewritten criteria.

 

[Magic Man]

Read my quote from the brief again. How do you define satisfactory?

Obviously it has to fall within limits that are allowed by law.

Student handbooks regularly have rules and regulations that are not always abided by, but violating those rules does not always have a direct affect on your program of study or academic standing. Her grades are not being affected here.

Can you give me any examples of violating the rules and regulations of a student handbook that don't affect your academic standing?

Like I said semantics. You tomato...

Anyway moving on...

No, it's not semantics.

 

[Autodidact]

Ok so I will concede that technically, which no one was directly pointing out, she is in violation of the student handbook or curriculum as you call it. Yet when that could include anything I find that somewhat disingenuous.

It's not technical, it's what she's studying.
Try this example: Someone's studying to be a massage therapist. She can pass the test, and knows all the anatomy and types of massage, but she can't give a decent massage. She needs remedial work.

This student knows the material, but cannot--or will not--give proper counseling. Therefore the school cannot certify that she has met their requirements, which include demonstrated ability to give proper counselling.

 

[Autodidact]

Student handbooks regularly have rules and regulations that are not always abided by, but violating those rules does not always have a direct affect on your program of study or academic standing. Her grades are not being affected here.

Like I said semantics. You tomato...

So you're saying they should make an exception and not apply the rules to this particular student? That they should give her a special privilege? Why?

 

[brbubba]

Can you give me any examples of violating the rules and regulations of a student handbook that don't affect your academic standing?

Underage drinking. There are many student handbook regulations at universities that can be violated without affecting academic standing.

It's not technical, it's what she's studying.
Try this example: Someone's studying to be a massage therapist. She can pass the test, and knows all the anatomy and types of massage, but she can't give a decent massage. She needs remedial work.

This student knows the material, but cannot--or will not--give proper counseling. Therefore the school cannot certify that she has met their requirements, which include demonstrated ability to give proper counselling.

You're extrapolating BS out of thin air. We don't know what she will or will not do. We can make a conjecture that she might act a certain way, but we don't know. Demonstrated ability is not mentioned in the brief and isn't part of the issue. If they put her in a real life counseling situation and she told some homosexual that they are sinful and need conversion therapy then I would have no issue with their remediation. I have issue with it because this is all conjecture taken from her expressed personal opinion about what she will or could do in the future.

 

[Storm]

You're extrapolating BS out of thin air. We don't know what she will or will not do. We can make a conjecture that she might act a certain way, but we don't know. Demonstrated ability is not mentioned in the brief and isn't part of the issue. If they put her in a real life counseling situation and she told some homosexual that they are sinful and need conversion therapy then I would have no issue with their remediation. I have issue with it because this is all conjecture taken from her expressed personal opinion about what she will or could do in the future.

So, you think we should let her loose to do the damage, then punish her for it, rather than prevent the damage in the first place?

Wow, that's disgustingly irresponsible.

 

[brbubba]

So, you think we should let her loose to do the damage, then punish her for it, rather than prevent the damage in the first place?

Wow, that's disgustingly irresponsible.

That's probably why the school is doing this in the first place. Like I said before though, market forces, aka, her employer, would likely curb any negligence. A university can't be judge jury and executioner here. Their job is to educate someone based around the best available information. It's not their place to judge anyone else's personal moral code or ethic.

While we are at it how about all universities give ethics tests to students and if they fail they are denied a degree unless they go to remediation. Ethics is not something exclusive to counseling and breaches can occur in any field.

 

[Storm]

That's probably why the school is doing this in the first place. Like I said before though, market forces, aka, her employer, would likely curb any negligence. A university can't be judge jury and executioner here. Their job is to educate someone based around the best available information. It's not their place to judge anyone else's personal moral code or ethic.

While we are at it how about all universities give ethics tests to students and if they fail they are denied a degree unless they go to remediation. Ethics is not something exclusive to counseling and breaches can occur in any field.

So, universities should pass medical students who believe diseases are caused by demonic possession?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The code of ethics indicates that, in order to meet the requirements of the program, you can't be an anti-homosexual bigot. She's an anti-homosexual bigot. Case closed.