Consciousness in Cavemen? A Debate.

[mickiel]

So, since we humans are subject to all the exact same forces and changes that cause all other living things to evolve: can you give me one good reason why humans do not evolve? In other words, since humans are subject to all of the things that cause evolution, what, in your opinion, prevents it?quote

Only certain animals have evolution, and not even 1/3 of them. Nothing can prevent human evolution, because nothing causes it. There is no human evolution, has been none, and will be none. I'll bank on that, in fact one organization has already banked on it. The " Gene Emergence Project" has sponsered an event called " The Orgin of Life Prize". They are currently offering 1.35 million dollars to anyone who can offer a credible, verifiable and reproducible explination of the orgin of Life. They want to know by what mechanisms initial genetic code arose in nature.

There has not been even one to claim the Prise.


Iquote
Now, considering all of the above, what evidence would it take to convince you that evolution does occur?

As I have stated, if any humans go to sleep, and wake up a different being, I would accept that as evolution. Or, if any humans change over ANY extended period of time, a total change, I would accept that.

Peace.

Peace.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Only certain animals have evolution, and not even 1/3 of them. Nothing can prevent human evolution, because nothing causes it.

Have you read a single word I've written?

Evolution is caused by genetic variation and environmental attrition. You have already accepted that humans are subject to both of these things - therefore humans are subject to the exact same forces which cause evolution in every other species on the planet. Since this is already an established fact, for your claim to be true there would have to be something to prevent humans from evolving as every other species does. Now, what is it?

And can you provide a single piece of evidence that "only certain animals have evolution"? That is a ludicrous claim.

There is no human evolution, has been none, and will be none. I'll bank on that, in fact one organization has already banked on it. The " Gene Emergence Project" has sponsered an event called " The Orgin of Life Prize". They are currently offering 1.35 million dollars to anyone who can offer a credible, verifiable and reproducible explination of the orgin of Life. They want to know by what mechanisms initial genetic code arose in nature.

There has not been even one to claim the Prise.

Abiogenesis - the emergence of life on earth - has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution explains how species change over time, not how all life begins. I can't believe you know this little about evolution and general biology and yet claim you're certain that evolution does not occur in humans.

As I have stated, if any humans go to sleep, and wake up a different being, I would accept that as evolution. Or, if any humans change over ANY extended period of time, a total change, I would accept that.

I have already explained that is not evolution. Here is my argument again since you apparently did not read it:

No, that would be a hugely bizarre event that flies in the face of biology - that would certainly NOT be evolution. Again, you clearly do not understand even the basic facts of evolution.

I have told you this dozens of times now, but it bears repeating: evolution is a very slow process of mutations in the genetic code (mutations that we know occur in humans) adding up through generation after generation until it results in populations sharing and developing unique genetic traits (again, this is known to occur in humans). Over especially long periods of time, this can lead to populations changing so much that they can be classed as a separate species to their ancestors (once again, this is known to occur in the human fossil record).

Now, considering all of the above, what evidence would it take to convince you that evolution does occur?

 

[mickiel]

).

Now, considering all of the above, what evidence would it take to convince you that evolution does occur?

Present your evidence to the Gene Emergence Project, and see if they give you the 1.3 million.

Peace.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Present your evidence to the Gene Emergence Project, and see if they give you the 1.3 million.

For God's sake, read the whole post before responding.

I've already told you that the Gene Emergence Project has nothing to do with evolution. It pertains to naturalistic explanations of the origin of life and DNA; evolution is the process by which life changes over time.

Now, read my entire post and respond to the entirety of my argument.

 

[mickiel]

For God's sake, read the whole post before responding.

I've already told you that the Gene Emergence Project has nothing to do with evolution. It pertains to naturalistic explanations of the origin of life and DNA; evolution is the process by which life changes over time.

Now, read my entire post and respond to the entirety of my argument.

You have no arguement, I don't believe in human evolution, there is no proof for it. Evolution is creation without Creator, there is no such thing as that. There is no arguement for me to consider. Human evolution is development from a rudimentary state of existence , to a more complex state of existence, humans have never done that.

And there is nothing in your brain that can understand me repeatedly saying this. Stop wasting time with me, and go get that 1.3 million, you gain nothing with me.

Peace.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You have no arguement, I don't believe in human evolution, there is no proof for it. Evolution is creation without Creator, there is no such thing as that.

Evolution has nothing to do with atheism. There are millions of theistic evolutionists in the world - many of them scientists, many of them religious leaders.

There is no arguement for me to consider. Human evolution is development from a rudimentary state of existence , to a more complex state of existence, humans have never done that.

Again, you clearly don't understand what evolution is. Firstly, increases in complexity are not required for speciation. Secondly, increases in genetic variation and complexity have been observed, both in humans and other species.

Once again, all you're doing is denying reality.

And there is nothing in your brain that can understand me repeatedly saying this. Stop wasting time with me, and go get that 1.3 million, you gain nothing with me.

That's it? No matter what I say, no matter what I present to you, no matter how many facts support me you're just going to stick your fingers in your eyes and run off screaming?

Honestly, you give theists a bad name.

 

[mickiel]

Honestly, you give theists a bad name.

I understand that their are strong cognitive imperatives that exist in many groups or religions, but I am part of none of them, I can thus give them no bad name, I am against them as much as I am your views.

I am after a much deeper understanding of this whole picture, and that is why I look to disect the life of Primordal man, their life is not over to me, it still lives in my mind. I want to know them, understand them, and why God created them.

And I will one day, just not today.

But one thing I do know; I will never understand Primordal mans existance, if I do not try to.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I understand that their are strong cognitive imperatives that exist in many groups or religions, but I am part of none of them, I can thus give them no bad name, I am against them as much as I am your views.

I am after a much deeper understanding of this whole picture, and that is why I look to disect the life of Primordal man, their life is not over to me, it still lives in my mind. I want to know them, understand them, and why God created them.

And I will one day, just not today.

But one thing I do know; I will never understand Primordal mans existance, if I do not try to.

Peace.

So we must choose well our beliefs and course of study but never base them on " Outside interference", from those who seek approval and validation of their oppisition. They don't see what you see, why make their blindness a stumbling block to your direction?

I will move on into my investigation of Primordal man and blaze my own trail.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

So we must choose well our beliefs and course of study but never base them on " Outside interference", from those who seek approval and validation of their oppisition. They don't see what you see, why make their blindness a stumbling block to your direction?

I will move on into my investigation of Primordal man and blaze my own trail.

Peace.

No matter what you believe, blaze your own trail, feed your own mind. Turn your own channel, stand up on your own reasonings. This is how I know Primordal man had no effective working Consciousness, they didnot blaze a trail. They didnot feed their own minds, they never turned a significant page in history. They were not the so called beginning of human evolution.

And I want to continue on that.

Peace.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I agree with Mick.

Go your own way.
Blaze your own trail.
Think your own thoughts.
Make it up as you go along.

And don't let the facts get in the way
and if someone proves you wrong just blaze a different trail.

I'm sorry Mick, i keep on telling myself "today is the day i stop making fun of Mick"

But then you post something like this.

*le sigh*

 

[JustWondering2]

Quax,
Sigh! Yes you're right! As we say here in Texas "you can led a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" or "it's like talking to a brick wall, no matter what you say or how much sense you make it's still a brick wall" or "his porch light is on, but nobodys home" just to name a few!

 

[mickiel]

Quax,
Sigh! Yes you're right! As we say here in Texas "you can led a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" or "it's like talking to a brick wall, no matter what you say or how much sense you make it's still a brick wall" or "his porch light is on, but nobodys home" just to name a few!

I am a brick wall when it comes to Atheist, because they rarely have anything to offer my thought process. Yet at times they do. Although I totally disagree with the Atheist mindset, I have enjoyed debating with them this year, more than I have any other.

I think thats because I am confronted by Atheist who have more substancial debate, than those I confronted last year. More stimulating and more humane. Less sarcastic and moronic.

Peace.

 

[JustWondering2]

And please tell me how you know someone is an Atheist?

So you would believe someone who was a Christian regardless of their background but not an Atheist period HUH. Interesting? Seems a bit prejudiced to me. You say you don't need religion and yet you seem to use it to determine what you do and don't believe. Kind of a contradiction isn't it?
So if your Atheist doctor told you to do or not to do something because it would advirsly affect your health, you would ignore his/her warning huh?
You sure you're not a Christian?

 

[mickiel]

And please tell me how you know someone is an Atheist?quote

I take their word for it.

quote
So you would believe someone who was a Christian regardless of their background but not an Atheist period HUH.quote

I do not believe in presentday Christianity- period.

quote
Interesting? Seems a bit prejudiced to me. You say you don't need religion and yet you seem to use it to determine what you do and don't believe. Kind of a contradiction isn't it?quote

I do not use religion to determine anything , except for the show of level of deception that exist in believers.

quote.So if your Atheist doctor told you to do or not to do something because it would advirsly affect your health, you would ignore his/her warning huh?quote

Well I have not ignored them in my 55 years of living, based on their personal beliefs. In fact, I have never known any of my doctors personal beliefs, I couldcareless what they believe.

quote
You sure you're not a Christian?

Yes, I am sure, but if you require further evidence, why not ask the Christians I have dealt with here. They know I am not. I am a loner, I walk alone, and need no crutch from any religious group.

Peace.

 

[JustWondering2]

Yes i agree with you in a way, in that I am a loner as well and that a Christian would be the last person I would believe. That's really not the point here. The point is you saying you do not believe someone's statements simpily because they are an atheist! That makes no sense, unless you side with the Christians.

 

[mickiel]

Yes i agree with you in a way, in that I am a loner as well and that a Christian would be the last person I would believe. That's really not the point here. The point is you saying you do not believe someone's statements simpily because they are an atheist! That makes no sense, unless you side with the Christians.

I side with no one, Atheist or Christian, I hold disputes with both. I agree with either when I judge them as being right, and disagree with both when I judge them as wrong.

And I see nothing wrong in being this way.

I walk alone.

Peace.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I understand that their are strong cognitive imperatives that exist in many groups or religions, but I am part of none of them, I can thus give them no bad name, I am against them as much as I am your views.

Nonsense. You rail against atheism all the time and clearly hold theistic views, hence you are a theist.

I am after a much deeper understanding of this whole picture, and that is why I look to disect the life of Primordal man, their life is not over to me, it still lives in my mind. I want to know them, understand them, and why God created them.

And I will one day, just not today.

But one thing I do know; I will never understand Primordal mans existance, if I do not try to.

Well, I've already shown you that your supposed "search for knowledge" leads you to ignore basic scientific principles and facts. You don't stand a hope in hell of learning anything if you continue to ignore reality in the manner that I have seen you do in favor of your own personal delusions. If you want to find out something, first you have to learn how to listen.

Your pretentious "I walk alone" spiel only serves to make you ignore the reality that you, for whatever reason, do not want to accept.

 

[mickiel]

Nonsense. You rail against atheism all the time and clearly hold theistic views, hence you are a theist.quote

I rail against both, and that is clear, just not clear to you. I am not what " You say " I am, you will never define me. My views are my own.

quote
Well, I've already shown you that your supposed "search for knowledge" leads you to ignore basic scientific principles and facts. You don't stand a hope in hell of learning anything if you continue to ignore reality in the manner that I have seen you do in favor of your own personal delusions. If you want to find out something, first you have to learn how to listen.quote

You have " Shown Me" nothing, and you are not one that I " Listen to", I will choose and discern who I listen to.


quote
Your pretentious "I walk alone" spiel only serves to make you ignore the reality that you, for whatever reason, do not want to accept.

I don't accept your views, and you cannot choose for me those views I accept.

I decide for myself what I will focus on in my Consciousness, something we all just have to do.

Peace.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I rail against both, and that is clear, just not clear to you. I am not what " You say " I am, you will never define me. My views are my own.

I've never seen you rail against theism. I've seen you rail against religions, but never against theism, and yet I've seen you repeatedly rant about atheists and atheism.

As to your views being your own, that may be - but they're still wrong.

You have " Shown Me" nothing, and you are not one that I " Listen to", I will choose and discern who I listen to

I've shown you that mutations occur in every human being - something you refuse to accept.

I have also shown you that evolution occurs in human beings - something you also refuse to accept.

I don't accept your views, and you cannot choose for me those views I accept.

I decide for myself what I will focus on in my Consciousness, something we all just have to do.

And that's why you're wrong. You don't listen to others, you only listen to things or people who tell you what you already want to hear. Either that or you just talk to yourself.

That's not how you ascertain the truth. That's how you delude yourself.

 

[mickiel]

In Isaiah 45:13, God said that he " Arroused a man in Righteousness." And made his ways Smooth. This means God has the Power to " Excite humans", into any action he wants them to think and do. And he can lead a human mind to think Righteous in their Consciousness, which he didnot do to Primordal man.

They were not Aroused, they were " Somnambulistic", or walking as if they were Sleep in their Consciousness.

And I want to go into that, and its ramifications.

Peace.