Conversion Therapy (Article)

[YmirGF]

The point is, that religions had authority over others - slightly different from us developing as we might regardless - so I think it perfectly legitimate to say they held us back in this regard - the major faiths at least - few were exactly sympathetic towards homosexuality.

More accurately, the various religions simply mirrored the attitudes of the societies they grew out of. Some, globally accepted attitudes within those communities, simply became doctrine. The difference is that attitudes are more fluid and flexible. Doctrine takes a bit more to change and consequently lags behind popular perception.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Thanks for proving my point. Nowhere do I see the word hatred.

Recheck, part of the definition didn't format and paste correctly.

irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against transgender or transsexual people

• We're also seeing historic levels oftransphobia—discrimination, hate speech and violent, even fatal attacks on transgender women and men.
• —Terry O'Neill, The Huffington Post, 8 Sept. 2014

Anyway the point is that phobia doesn't just mean fear, but irrational aversion, disdain, dislike and discrimination are also part of the definition and discusson.

 

[YmirGF]

Recheck, part of the definition didn't format and paste correctly.

Anyway the point is that phobia doesn't just mean fear, but irrational aversion, disdain, dislike and discrimination are also part of the definition and discusson.

I never, not for a second, implied that anything you have just said wasn't appropriate. I simply bridled at your mistaken usage of the word hatred.

 

[Jumi]

No 7 on my list of reasons (30), why religions have been the worst invention of humans - They often promote false beliefs (about such things as sexuality).

Not just religions. You should know that non-religious countries as well have had useless treatments for human condition that are not harmful. In communist countries homosexuals were thought to be a result of bourgeoisie moral corruption.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Not just religions. You should know that non-religious countries as well have had useless treatments for human condition that are not harmful. In communist countries homosexuals were thought to be a result of bourgeoisie moral corruption.

Communism - quite recent, and just a blip - religions not so much so - two millennia or so.

 

[YmirGF]

@ADigitalArtist Look, let's call a truce. I do, more or less, agree with most of what you are saying. Friends?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I never, not for a second, implied that anything you have just said wasn't appropriate. I simply bridled at your mistaken usage of the word hatred.

Your first post to me on transphobia was rejecting the term in most cases because you've not seen fear of transgendered. Nowhere in that post did I mention hatred. And though I think hatred of trans is a symptom and example of manifested transphobia, my point is and was that phobia doesn't just mean fear.

Totally willing to agree to disagree though. Don' want to derail the thread anyway.
Edit: sorry started the post then had to walk away for a second. Just saw your post. Never not friends just because we disagree about something.

 

[YmirGF]

Your first post to me on transphobia was rejecting the term in most cases because you've not seen fear of transgendered. Nowhere in that post did I mention hatred. And though I think hatred of trans is a symptom and example of manifested transphobia, my point is and was that phobia doesn't just mean fear.

Totally willing to agree to disagree though. Don' want to derail the thread anyway.
Edit: sorry started the post then had to walk away for a second. Just saw your post. Never not friends just because we disagree about something.

I think both of us will totally agree that so-called "conversion therapy" is not only dangerous but, quite frankly, is a crack pot set of ideas that should be outlawed and provide very stiff sentences/fines on those who insist on promoting this nonsense.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) opposes psychiatric treatment "based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that a patient should change his/her sexual homosexual orientation"[8] and describes attempts to change sexual orientation by practitioners as unethical.[6] It also states that debates over the integration of gay and lesbian people have obscured science "by calling into question the motives and even the character of individuals on both sides of the issue"[8] and that the advancement of conversion therapy may cause social harm by disseminating unscientific views about sexual orientation.[9] United States Surgeon General David Satcher in 2001 issued a report stating that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed".[14]

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Communism - quite recent, and just a blip - religions not so much so - two millennia or so.

Being recent doesn't make it any less poiniant or significant than something being old makes it moreso. It's a relevant example of extreme anti-religious history with poor human rights and we ignore it at our own peril of repeating it.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I think both of us will totally agree that so-called "conversion therapy" is not only dangerous but, quite frankly, is a crack pot set of ideas that should be outlawed and provide very stiff sentences/fines on those who insist on promoting this nonsense.

Yes, on that I completely agree.

 

[Jumi]

Communism - quite recent, and just a blip - religions not so much so - two millennia or so.

You mean the Abrahamic religions I guess.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

No 7 on my list of reasons (30), why religions have been the worst invention of humans - They often promote false beliefs (about such things as sexuality).

Nonsense. People promote false beliefs.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

But that is only relatively recent - that is, whilst communism was in authority.

It still is

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Not just religions. You should know that non-religious countries as well have had useless treatments for human condition that are not harmful. In communist countries homosexuals were thought to be a result of bourgeoisie moral corruption.

They still are

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As a member of the gay community and an avowed atheist I reject the use of the term "transphobia" in virtually all cases. I've yet to encounter anyone who has an unrealistic fear of trans humans. I have met a number of people who are very uncomfortable with the loopier ideas coming out the acedemia's Gender Studies departments however.

The trans bathroom panic and the highly disporportionate rate of murder and violence against trans women begs to differ with you. Yes, many people are afraid of and full of hatred for trans people. To say otherwise is to be in denial of reality, willfully or otherwise.

Obviously the people who dragged this lady from her home and beat her and shot her to death in broad daylight had so much love for trans people: Five Sentenced in Killing of Brazilian Transgender Woman

 

[YmirGF]

The trans bathroom panic and the highly disproportionate rate of murder and violence against trans women begs to differ with you. Yes, many people are afraid of and full of hatred for trans people. To say otherwise is to be in denial of reality, willfully or otherwise.

Obviously the people who dragged this lady from her home and beat her and shot her to death in broad daylight had so much love for trans people: Five Sentenced in Killing of Brazilian Transgender Woman

Frankie, I do hear what you are saying. I'm not saying that a significant number of trans humans do not face considerable pressure from SOME elements of society. I repeat, "I have never met any person who has ever said that trans humans should be hurt or murdered." That said, a great deal of people do not understand the suffering encountered by trans humans. Maybe we need more people like you in the Trans Activist camp to get the message out. The Trans activist I have listened to, for many hours, make FAR less sense than you do.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Frankie, I do hear what you are saying. I'm not saying that a significant number of trans humans do not face considerable pressure from SOME elements of society. I repeat, "I have never met any person who has ever said that trans humans should be hurt or murdered." That said, a great deal of people do not understand the suffering encountered by trans humans. Maybe we need more people like you in the Trans Activist camp to get the message out. The Trans activist I have listened to, for many hours, make FAR less sense than you do.

The world is bigger than who you have met. I don't know what trans activists you've been listening to. The right-wing media (since you're a right-winger and I know you're fond of it) tends to make minority activists look like loons by taking things out of context and promoting the fringes of a given rights movement as if they represent the mainstream. They do that to discredit those movements and scare their audiences who already are ignorant about those groups (most people are not familiar with trans people and so shoving our crazies (every group has its crazies) in their faces as if they represent us all is not going to leave them with a good impression of us).

Maybe you should try some Janet Mock to start with. She is well-respected and is certainly no fringe radical. Her books are Redefining Realness and Surpassing Certainty. Look them up when you get a chance. I'm only saying the same things as most other trans activists. I'm just representing the majority there. The cranks on social media saying "die cissy scum" and saying that raising your kid with gender or baby gender reveal parties are transphobic are on the fringe (or just trolls) and most trans people wouldn't agree with them. Social media is a horrible example of...well, just about anything. Gender theory is useful but some of the stuff it says is more experimental, shall we say. It's not much different from any other branch of social studies in that regard.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Aside from the fact that virtually all religions have a miserable track record on gay rights and often outright encourage persecution. It's only been in the last 10 or 15 years that we have even heard religious groups pretending to be inclusive.

No. Monotheistic religion has a bad track record. Polytheists don't believe that gods are that interested in human's sex lives, unless they get involved themselves.

 

[YmirGF]

No. Monotheistic religion has a bad track record. Polytheists don't believe that gods are that interested in human's sex lives, unless they get involved themselves.

Forgive me, I was thinking of larger recognized religions. Polytheism, outside of Hinduism, is a tiny, tiny group. Again, forgive any slight as none was intended.

 

[YmirGF]

The world is bigger than who you have met. I don't know what trans activists you've been listening to. The right-wing media (since you're a right-winger and I know you're fond of it) tends to make minority activists look like loons by taking things out of context and promoting the fringes of a given rights movement as if they represent the mainstream. They do that to discredit those movements and scare their audiences who already are ignorant about those groups (most people are not familiar with trans people and so shoving our crazies (every group has its crazies) in their faces as if they represent us all is not going to leave them with a good impression of us).

Maybe you should try some Janet Mock to start with. She is well-respected and is certainly no fringe radical. Her books are Redefining Realness and Surpassing Certainty. Look them up when you get a chance. I'm only saying the same things as most other trans activists. I'm just representing the majority there. The cranks on social media saying "die cissy scum" and saying that raising your kid with gender or baby gender reveal parties are transphobic are on the fringe (or just trolls) and most trans people wouldn't agree with them. Social media is a horrible example of...well, just about anything. Gender theory is useful but some of the stuff it says is more experimental, shall we say. It's not much different from any other branch of social studies in that regard.

I will definitely add her to my reading list. Thanks. Just to clarity, I've been focusing on lectures given by Professors in Gender Studies departments, not cut and paste hack jobs, designed to make them look nuts. So, I'm listening to their own words. Perhaps I've just had an uncanny knack for zeroing in on the nutjobs. Thank you for the highlighted part. At least now I know it's not just me, as I sit thinking, "Wtf?"