Conversion Therapy (Article)

[Saint Frankenstein]

I will definitely add her to my reading list. Thanks. Just to clarity, I've been focusing on lectures given by Professors in Gender Studies departments, not cut and paste hack jobs, designed to make them look nuts. So, I'm listening to their own words. Perhaps I've just had an uncanny knack for zeroing in on the nutjobs. Thank you for the highlighted part. At least now I know it's not just me, as I just thinking, "Wtf?"

You're welcome.

I do wonder which professors and what they're saying. Maybe you can PM it to me so we don't take this thread further off topic.

 

[YmirGF]

You're welcome.

I do wonder which professors and what they're saying. Maybe you can PM it to me so we don't take this thread further off topic.

No guarentees, but I'll try and look them up. Most I just stumbled across while munching down lectures on Intersectionality.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No guarentees, but I'll try and look them up. Most I just stumbled across while munching down lectures on Intersectionality.

Okay. The most well-known gender theorists I know of are Judith Butler and Jack Halberstam and not everyone cares for Butler. She's contentious.

 

[YmirGF]

Okay. The most well-known gender theorists I know of are Judith Butler and Jack Halberstam and not everyone cares for Butler. She's contentious.

Cool beans. Have both lined up for many hours of listening.

judith butler - YouTube

jack halberstam - YouTube

 

[tayla]

conversion therapy

There is also conversion therapy for people in cults.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Being recent doesn't make it any less poiniant or significant than something being old makes it moreso. It's a relevant example of extreme anti-religious history with poor human rights and we ignore it at our own peril of repeating it.

Sorry, it does, when the religious influence is just so much greater and affects so many more people over a much longer stretch of time - as I pointed out. I'm not defending communism, but I am being more realistic as to what religions have done, and are still doing, than you are it seems.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You mean the Abrahamic religions I guess.

Mostly yes, with Islam still playing that role even today - to varying degrees.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Nonsense. People promote false beliefs.

Not so. The authority of the church means so much more, and is possibly why it has taken so long for homosexuality to become less stigmatised - the waning power of religions now enabling this.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Sorry, it does, when the religious influence is just so much greater and affects so many more people over a much longer stretch of time - as I pointed out. I'm not defending communism, but I am being more realistic as to what religions have done, and are still doing, than you are it seems.

Uh, the atrocities of said communist regimes killed more people than all the crusades put together, as well as all terrorist acts, and whatever else you could argue is being done today or in the past by religions you continue to overgeneralize and strawman. It had (and still has) in spades: Oppression, supression, dogmatism, human rights violations, the works. It's not realistic to say radical anti-theism in power had less of a historical impact than radical religious regimes, or that their placement in history as a modern event makes it less significant.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Not so. The authority of the church means so much more, and is possibly why it has taken so long for homosexuality to become less stigmatised - the waning power of religions now enabling this.

You know the Greek men had young boys for themselves they ****ed in the arse as they pleased?

Church is not an authority.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Sorry, it does, when the religious influence is just so much greater and affects so many more people over a much longer stretch of time - as I pointed out. I'm not defending communism, but I am being more realistic as to what religions have done, and are still doing, than you are it seems.

You're comparing communism and religions? And completely ignoring that if the effect of religions was removed you me or anybody would have absolutely no idea what would be then.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Uh, the atrocities of said communist regimes killed more people than all the crusades put together, as well as all terrorist acts, and whatever else you could argue is being done today or in the past by religions you continue to overgeneralize and strawman. It had (and still has) in spades: Oppression, supression, dogmatism, human rights violations, the works. It's not realistic to say radical anti-theism in power had less of a historical impact than radical religious regimes, or that their placement in history as a modern event makes it less significant.

Not about numbers. And it is you who are introducing the Straw Man element - and refusing to see the authority of the church as being a malign influence over such a long period. The fact is that without the church, via the Sunday sermons pointing to all our various vices, including homosexuality no doubt, people might have behaved differently. You simply refuse to accept what is blatantly obvious - that they often promote false beliefs - and in the case of Islam, continue to do so.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You know the Greek men had young boys for themselves they ****ed in the arse as they pleased?

Church is not an authority.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Not about numbers. And it is you who are introducing the Straw Man element - and refusing to see the authority of the church as being a malign influence over such a long period. The fact is that without the church, via the Sunday sermons pointing to all our various vices, including homosexuality no doubt, people might have behaved differently. You simply refuse to accept what is blatantly obvious - that they often promote false beliefs - and in the case of Islam, continue to do so.

What is a false belief?

 

[Mock Turtle]

You're comparing communism and religions? And completely ignoring that if the effect of religions was removed you me or anybody would have absolutely no idea what would be then.

You what? Are you serious? Try telling that to the many who have lived without the influence of any of the major religions - like some of the indigenous tribes mentioned in another thread. We all need religions?

 

[Mock Turtle]

What is a false belief?

Look in the mirror.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Not about numbers. And it is you who are introducing the Straw Man element - and refusing to see the authority of the church as being a malign influence over such a long period. The fact is that without the church, via the Sunday sermons pointing to all our various vices, including homosexuality no doubt, people might have behaved differently. You simply refuse to accept what is blatantly obvious - that they often promote false beliefs - and in the case of Islam, continue to do so.

Once again, you have absolutely no evidence that homophobia is a result of religion rather than the religion as a result of homophobia. As in a fairly universal, with limited exception, belief of ancient culture was incorporated into their beliefs and perpetuated by that same human nature which birthed it. Including in cultures with little to no religious belief, who still oppressed (and still oppress) homosexuality.

And I remind that in modern America, acceptance of homosexuality is going up in practicing Christians and Muslims but going down in atheists. The belief that homosexuality should be rejected has, according to pew, gone up by 10% in 10 years. As American atheist groups are pendulum swinging more sociopolitically right.

I stand by my statement: calling religion the problem is, at best, an unworkable generalization and stereotype. At worst, history and social studies blind.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

You what? Are you serious? Try telling that to the many who have lived without the influence of any of the major religions - like some of the indigenous tribes mentioned in another thread. We all need religions?

Tribes? The whole world and its 8 billion people are affected by religions and have been always

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Look in the mirror.

That's no definition.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Once again, you have absolutely no evidence that homophobia is a result of religion rather than the religion as a result of homophobia. As in a fairly universal, with limited exception, belief of ancient culture was incorporated into their beliefs and perpetuated by that same human nature which birthed it. Including in cultures with little to no religious belief, who still oppressed (and still oppress) homosexuality.

I stand by my statement: calling religion the problem is, at best, an unworkable generalization and stereotype. At worst, history and social studies blind.

I didn't say that. Look at what I posted. How can you defend against my assertion that they have been promoting false beliefs when it is blatantly obvious that they have?