Convince me that God is loving

[Trailblazer]

Convince a 70 yr old that God is loving?

Pass

What does it have to do with age? Someday you will be 70, God willing.

 

[Trailblazer]

I've been trying to make my strongest case for why God is loving simply to play devil's advocate... or, wait, I guess in this case God's advocate? The problem is that I can't really think of any good argument for why God is loving.

Neither can I, but as I said in another post, I can think why God would be benevolent, although even then God plays favorites.

“No God is there but Him. All creation and its empire are His. He bestoweth His gifts on whom He will, and from whom He will He withholdeth them. He is the Great Giver, the Most Generous, the Benevolent.” Gleanings, p. 278

What does it mean to say that God is loving? What would a loving God do?

Baha'u'llah took it a step further and wrote that God is all-loving. Obviously Baha'u'llah knew something about God that we don't know and He has kept that under His hat. And we are just supposed to believe that? Count me out. I need a reason to believe something, evidence, or at least something that makes sense.

 

[YoursTrue]

I do not believe in saved and unsaved, since I do not believe there is anything to be saved from, except our lower selfish nature. I believe selfish people and those who committed heinous crimes against others make their own hell, God does not send them there. Conversely, good people who loved God and loved and served their fellow men will be in heaven, which is not a geographical location but rather a state of the soul. We can be in heaven or hell in this life or the afterlife.

I do not think that souls are confined to hell for eternity. I think that souls from heaven can come down to hell and try to rescue souls in hell, but most souls will choose to remain in hell since that is all they know and are comfortable with. This is not according to my religious beliefs, it is just what I believe from other sources.

So you do believe in some having eternal torment in some place called hell? What does your religion teach about this, if anything?

 

[YoursTrue]

Neither can I, but as I said in another post, I can think why God would be benevolent, although even then God plays favorites.

“No God is there but Him. All creation and its empire are His. He bestoweth His gifts on whom He will, and from whom He will He withholdeth them. He is the Great Giver, the Most Generous, the Benevolent.” Gleanings, p. 278

What does it mean to say that God is loving? What would a loving God do?

Baha'u'llah took it a step further and wrote that God is all-loving. Obviously Baha'u'llah knew something about God that we don't know and He has kept that under His hat. And we are just supposed to believe that? Count me out. I need a reason to believe something, evidence, or at least something that makes sense.

Is your counselor a Bahai believer?

 

[YoursTrue]

Interestingly, this was a view that was likely popular among early Christians. The Apocalypse of Peter, which was widely accepted as inspired scripture for centuries and inspired Dante's Inferno, ends with a prayer meant to offer salvation to those in Hell. It was eventually condemned by heresiologists for coming too close to justifying universalism.

I remember reading Dante's Inferno years ago and even though I was not a believer at that point, I thought it was a bag of mess. And now I know it is. How sad that anyone would be taught that bag.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is your counselor a Bahai believer?

No, she is Jewish.

 

[YoursTrue]

Maybe you should re-read Job. "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus was suffering. And it seems it was the first time that he was not hearing in his mind and heart from God. God allowed him to suffer for that whle so Jesus would understand humanity better when he went to heaven. Do you have any idea why? (And his awful suffering didn't last that long -- as if he might be forever in torment as some religious beliefs go.)

 

[YoursTrue]

No, she is Jewish.

So you, as a Bahai follower, have a counselor that does not accept your religious beliefs. Has she explained anything to you about why God permits suffering?

 

[Trailblazer]

So you do believe in some having eternal torment in some place called hell? What does your religion teach about this, if anything?

There are a lot of teachings but I like this video since it is a good summary.

 

[samtonga43]

What's your point?

Just that you are wrong when you say that people who are depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all and many cannot even work.
This is not true.
People who are clinically depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all and many cannot even work.
Don't you recognize the difference?

 

[Ella S.]

I remember reading Dante's Inferno years ago and even though I was not a believer at that point, I thought it was a bag of mess. And now I know it is. How sad that anyone would be taught that bag.

I know. Could you imagine people actually believing in Hell and God? Ridiculous.

Jesus was suffering. And it seems it was the first time that he was not hearing in his mind and heart from God. God allowed him to suffer for that whle so Jesus would understand humanity better when he went to heaven. Do you have any idea why? (And his awful suffering didn't last that long -- as if he might be forever in torment as some religious beliefs go.)

Doesn't matter. The point is that both Job and Jesus questioned God's righteousness during their hour of suffering, so it doesn't make sense to use them as examples for why we should expect the faithful to be unwavering in their belief that God is good. Even Jesus wasn't held to that standard.

Of course, leave it to the Christians to find someone in pain and then go out of their way to salt that person's wounds just to try to justify their own theology to themselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you, as a Bahai follower, have a counselor that does not accept your religious beliefs. Has she explained anything to you about why God permits suffering?

We never discuss God or religion, that is not what counseling is for. I have been seeing her for almost two years and I only found out she was Jewish a couple of weeks ago because it came up in conversation.

 

[Trailblazer]

Just that you are wrong when you say that people who are depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all and many cannot even work.
This is not true.
People who are clinically depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all and many cannot even work.
Don't you recognize the difference?

I already told you I know the difference.
#229 Trailblazer, Today at 1:35 PM

Now, what's your point?

 

[samtonga43]

I already told you I know the difference.
#229 Trailblazer, Today at 1:35 PM

Now, what's your point?

My point is that you were wrong when you said that people who are depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all, and many cannot even work.

Do you admit that you were wrong?

Do you realize that it is clinically depressed people who fit your description of symptoms?

 

[Truthseeker]

My point is that you were wrong when you said that people who are depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all, and many cannot even work.

Do you admit that you were wrong?

Do you realize that it is clinically depressed people who fit your description of symptoms?

This thread is not about that, you know. It is about proving to @Trailblazer whether God is loving.

 

[Trailblazer]

My point is that you were wrong when you said that people who are depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all, and many cannot even work.

Do you admit that you were wrong?

Do you realize that it is clinically depressed people who fit your description of symptoms?

I did not have to realize that. I already knew that.
I was not wrong because when I said people who are depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all, and many cannot even work, I was referring to clinically depressed people.

If I had said that ALL people who are depressed have trouble eating and sleeping or doing anything at all, and many cannot even work, I would have been wrong..

What is the highest level of depression?

Clinical depression is the more-severe form of depression, also known as major depression or major depressive disorder. It isn't the same as depression caused by a loss, such as the death of a loved one, or a medical condition, such as a thyroid disorder.

Clinical depression: What does that mean? - Mayo Clinic

 

[Jimmy]

Convince me god eats donuts.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are a lot of teachings but I like this video since it is a good summary.

All right, but may i ask how a person who does not believe in the Bahai faith can help you figure out about love and God and your position in that. Do you know a Bahai believer that is a practitioner/therapist? Also wondering what your religion teaches you about God's love.

 

[Trailblazer]

This thread is not about that, you know. It is about proving to @Trailblazer whether God is loving.

You didn't know this thread is about proving that @Trailblazer is wrong? Shame on you @Truthseeker.

 

[YoursTrue]

This thread is not about that, you know. It is about proving to @Trailblazer whether God is loving.

You are of the same religious viewpoint as TB. So how do you figure that God is loving. 1 John 4:16 helps to understand this: "And we have come to understand and to trust the love which God hath in us. God is love; And he that abideth in love in God abideth, And God in him [abideth]."