Convince me that God is loving

[YoursTrue]

I know. Could you imagine people actually believing in Hell and God? Ridiculous.



Doesn't matter. The point is that both Job and Jesus questioned God's righteousness during their hour of suffering, so it doesn't make sense to use them as examples for why we should expect the faithful to be unwavering in their belief that God is good. Even Jesus wasn't held to that standard.

Of course, leave it to the Christians to find someone in pain and then go out of their way to salt that person's wounds just to try to justify their own theology to themselves.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last statement. Considering that the Bible says that God IS love, one must consider how He expresses that love. 1 John 4:16 helps me to understand this: "And we have come to understand and to trust the love which God hath in us. God is love; And he that abideth in love in God abideth, And God in him [abideth]." So tell me what you might think about that scripture, please. Thank you.

 

[Trailblazer]

All right, but may i ask how a person who does not believe in the Bahai faith can help you figure out about love and God and your position in that. Do you know a Bahai believer that is a practitioner/therapist? Also wondering what your religion teaches you about God's love.

I do not go to therapy to figure out about love and God and my position in that. I go for psychological problems.
My religion teaches that God is All-loving.

O GOD our Lord! Protect us through Thy grace from whatsoever may be repugnant unto Thee and vouchsafe unto us that which well beseemeth Thee. Give us more out of Thy bounty and bless us. Pardon us for the things we have done and wash away our sins and forgive us with Thy gracious forgiveness. Verily Thou art the Most Exalted, the Self-Subsisting.

Thy loving providence hath encompassed all created things in the heavens and on the earth, and Thy forgiveness hath surpassed the whole creation. Thine is sovereignty; in Thy hand are the Kingdoms of Creation and Revelation; in Thy right hand Thou holdest all created things and within Thy grasp are the assigned measures of forgiveness. Thou forgivest whomsoever among Thy servants Thou pleasest. Verily Thou art the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Loving. Nothing whatsoever escapeth Thy knowledge, and naught is there which is hidden from Thee.

O God our Lord! Protect us through the potency of Thy might, enable us to enter Thy wondrous surging ocean, and grant us that which well befitteth Thee.

Thou art the Sovereign Ruler, the Mighty Doer, the Exalted, the All-loving.

Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 178

 

[YoursTrue]

We never discuss God or religion, that is not what counseling is for. I have been seeing her for almost two years and I only found out she was Jewish a couple of weeks ago because it came up in conversation.

hmm, I have to disagree with you. Before I turned to God, I always wondered and would ask my therapist about God and life. He had no answers in particular. I won't go into detail but I am happy I am in the spiritual state I am in now, not perfect, but far, far, F A R better than when I was in "therapy." Thanks for reminding me of that. I'm not suggesting you stop therapy. We all must decide what we need or want from other people, including doctors and therapists. Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

I do not go to therapy to figure out about love and God and my position in that. I go for psychological problems.
My religion teaches that God is All-loving.

O GOD our Lord! Protect us through Thy grace from whatsoever may be repugnant unto Thee and vouchsafe unto us that which well beseemeth Thee. Give us more out of Thy bounty and bless us. Pardon us for the things we have done and wash away our sins and forgive us with Thy gracious forgiveness. Verily Thou art the Most Exalted, the Self-Subsisting.

Thy loving providence hath encompassed all created things in the heavens and on the earth, and Thy forgiveness hath surpassed the whole creation. Thine is sovereignty; in Thy hand are the Kingdoms of Creation and Revelation; in Thy right hand Thou holdest all created things and within Thy grasp are the assigned measures of forgiveness. Thou forgivest whomsoever among Thy servants Thou pleasest. Verily Thou art the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Loving. Nothing whatsoever escapeth Thy knowledge, and naught is there which is hidden from Thee.

O God our Lord! Protect us through the potency of Thy might, enable us to enter Thy wondrous surging ocean, and grant us that which well befitteth Thee.

Thou art the Sovereign Ruler, the Mighty Doer, the Exalted, the All-loving.

Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 178

So I'm not sure about your thoughts regarding what is considered about hell, or hellfire. Did you say that your god has hellfire for wicked, or what does it teach?

 

[Trailblazer]

Considering that the Bible says that God IS love, one must consider how He expresses that love.

That is the crux of the issue: How does God express that love?

1 John 4:16 helps me to understand this: "And we have come to understand and to trust the love which God hath in us. God is love; And he that abideth in love in God abideth, And God in him [abideth]."

That verse does not help me understand how God expresses love. It does not say anything about how God expresses His love for us. Why have you come to understand and to trust the love which God hath in us? For what reason?

 

[YoursTrue]

That is the crux of the issue: How does God express that love?

That verse does not help me understand how God expresses love. It does not say anything about how God expresses His love for us. Why have you come to understand and to trust the love which God hath in us? For what reason?

OK, I understand what you mean. And in order to understand that, you'd have to think about why the earth is in the situation it is in now. (That's part of love that God has allowed me to understaand. It takes time for some. It took me time to understand. I am not going to express everything here, because the "rules" of the forum may be against it, it involves what I believe firmly about God, but I will tell you that in order for me to better understand before I believed -- almost like "Amazing Grace," I prayed finally to find out more.) God is higher than we are.

 

[Trailblazer]

hmm, I have to disagree with you. Before I turned to God, I always wondered and would ask my therapist about God and life. He had no answers in particular. I won't go into detail but I am happy I am in the spiritual state I am in now, not perfect, but far, far, F A R better than when I was in "therapy." Thanks for reminding me of that. I'm not suggesting you stop therapy. We all must decide what we need or want from other people, including doctors and therapists. Thanks.

If you went to a Christian-based counselor it would be appropriate to discuss God and religion, and that would be allowed in a private practice, but I don't think it would be allowed in an HMO clinic which is what I have.

I do not need therapy to help me sort out my religious beliefs. If I need help I can get help from a Baha'i friend or from the Baha'i community.

It is not an either-or. I can get help for my psychological issues from a counselor and I can get help for my spiritual issues from the Baha'i community.

 

[Trailblazer]

So I'm not sure about your thoughts regarding what is considered about hell, or hellfire. Did you say that your god has hellfire for wicked, or what does it teach?

Hell is similarly being far from God, not a place, but of failing to understand and apply virtues and guidance from God. Progress from even the worst condition is possible even in the next world but not until the individual fundamentally overcomes rejecting Godly virtues.

Baháʼí Faith on life after death - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

OK, I understand what you mean. And in order to understand that, you'd have to think about why the earth is in the situation it is in now.

I believe that I understand why the earth is in the situation it is in now and what is going to get us out of this situation.
However, I do not understand how that is related to how God expresses His love for us.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not believe in saved and unsaved, since I do not believe there is anything to be saved from, except our lower selfish nature. I believe selfish people and those who committed heinous crimes against others make their own hell, God does not send them there. Conversely, good people who loved God and loved and served their fellow men will be in heaven, which is not a geographical location but rather a state of the soul. We can be in heaven or hell in this life or the afterlife.

I do not think that souls are confined to hell for eternity. I think that souls from heaven can come down to hell and try to rescue souls in hell, but most souls will choose to remain in hell since that is all they know and are comfortable with. This is not according to my religious beliefs, it is just what I believe from other sources.

I do not believe in the biblical teachings of heaven or hell, nor do I believe that either is a geological location. In fact, I reject what the Bible teaches about the afterlife and what happens to people after death. As a psychic medium, I can attest to the fact that there are human spirits who are earthbound and trapped in the physical world, either by personal choice or because they are confused and afraid. Some human spirits are scared and very confused about what has happened to them, so they refuse to cross over into the spirit world. Other human spirits are unaware that they have died. There are also human spirits who are very angry because they feel betrayed since they aren't in heaven as they expected after death, so they refuse to cross over into the spirit world. Then there are malicious human spirits who lash out at the living because they were vile and cruel while alive, and their personality carried over into their afterlife. As a medium, I've encountered these types of spirits over the years, and I've persuaded some of them to cross over.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not believe in the biblical teachings of heaven or hell, nor do I believe that either is a geological location. In fact, I reject what the Bible teaches about the afterlife and what happens to people after death. As a psychic medium, I can attest to the fact that there are human spirits who are earthbound and trapped in the physical world, either by personal choice or because they are confused and afraid. Some human spirits are scared and very confused about what has happened to them, so they refuse to cross over into the spirit world. Other human spirits are unaware that they have died. There are also human spirits who are very angry because they feel betrayed since they aren't in heaven as they expected after death, so they refuse to cross over into the spirit world. Then there are malicious human spirits who lash out at the living because they were vile and cruel while alive, and their personality carried over into their afterlife. As a medium, I've encountered these types of spirits over the years, and I've persuaded some of them to cross over.

Interesting, I was just reading about this in the book entitled Private Dowding by Wellesley Tudor Pole and it confirms what you have experienced. The book says that some are working on this side and some are working on the other side to help spirits cross over. You are one who is working on this side.

 

[Brian2]

OK, I'll finally try to answer the original question.

The difference is critical. Imagine you are in a room, strapped down on an operating table, surrounded by various medical implements. A man you don't know is preparing to use the implements on you. He may be a benevolent surgeon or a psychopath that is about to enjoy torturing you. What follows may be similar as far as your suffering goes, but which would you prefer?

During my brief (several years, but limited and over now) excursion into religious belief, I had convinced myself that I was in contact with "something" that could loosely be called "god". I realized that I knew very little about the being, apart from the fact that my life had already improved. I decided to approach the whole thing stepwise. I would ask for answers and wait for replies, and not expect to progress too quickly. Anyway, I was well aware that I did not know enough about the nature of this being to know if it was benevolent or not. I decided to assume benevolence, not because it was particularly logical to do so, but because the alternative, being in the power of an evil being, was too horrible to contemplate.

Most people would known God loves them when you became a Christian. There should not be wondering about whether God is benevolent or not.

 

[Brian2]

God gave us forgiveness through Jesus, but God does not give us life and food. Our parents gave us life and we have to work for our food. Whatever God does for us comes through the Manifestations of God.

God created all things and as the Bible says, He gives rain and sunshine etc etc to all people. And of course we don't just sit back and get food shoveled into our mouths and our diapers changed etc when we are grown up, we have a certain responsibility for our own welfare and that of others.

God does not have an outstretched hand because God is not a human being.

You know what a metaphor is and there are enough of them in the Bible to tell us that God knows what they are also.

The primary thing that God has done for us was manifesting Himself by sending the Manifestations of God.
Jesus was one such Manifestation of God, and having completed His mission on earth, He ascended to heaven. Now God has sent humanity another Messenger, Baha'u'llah. I have to agree with @loverofhumanity that this is God's Greatest Gift, but I would extend that to say that Jesus was just as great. They each had an important mission, and the mission of Jesus laid the foundation for the mission of Baha'u'llah. All the Manifestations of God (Messengers) had a mission, but some had a more important mission than others.

You forgot Muhammad and The Bab.
Jesus came as the Christ and brought in the eternal covenant, the New Covenant that was promised in the OT.
All the prophets in the OT pointed to the Christ and what He did cannot be added to. We now have the forgiveness through Jesus and the Kingdom from the time of Jesus and God living IN those who believe.
Muhammad then came and denied the Eternal Covenant and Everlasting Gospel and The Bab came and pointed to someone (Baha'u'llah) who would also deny the Eternal Covenant and Everlasting Gospel.
Something went wrong with the Messengers after Jesus, they turned against the other Biblical messengers.

“Know that the attributes of perfection, the splendor of the divine bounties, and the lights of inspiration are visible and evident in all the Holy Manifestations; but the glorious Word of God, Christ, and the Greatest Name, Bahá’u’lláh, are manifestations and evidences which are beyond imagination, for They possess all the perfections of the former Manifestations; and more than that, They possess some perfections which make the other Manifestations dependent upon Them. So all the Prophets of Israel were centers of inspiration; Christ also was a receiver of inspiration, but what a difference between the inspiration of the Word of God and the revelations of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Elijah!”

Some Answered Questions, pp. 149-150

Jesus is the image of the invisible God. How do you have more perfection than that? But Baha'u'llah says he has more perfection.
Too much denial of and attacking of Jesus and the Bible by God (supposedly) after Jesus came.

Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.…

As for what Quintessence said, I think an omniscient God who loves us and created us knows what love means to us, especially when God has become a human through Jesus. I would say that God has a bigger picture and knows what is best for us and is working towards that bigger picture, which we don't see clearly in our little worlds.

 

[rational experiences]

Our human parents first are our life our minds and human loved us. Past tense.

We live now loved or unloved. Behaviours.

Animals love and love us... loved us too. Proof life is loving biology. Past tense origin.

Half osmosis water mass biology lost to cloud reforming above can't enter our body.

Mind aware of losses now hear recorded past tense life plus living water tells us it loves and loved us. Memories biology.

Isn't God.

God in teaching terms only. Versus satanic human theists.

God loves us as it supported our highest greatest human being. Parents first animal life first.

Which man's gas spirit sciences changed above changed life.

As conscious aware is in heavens gases and not sealed rock mass. First. Theists awareness position. Against love.

Gases advised by man's living biology. Who was naturally loving. Destroyed a huge sealed cold ground mass to get a gas. Is why heavens life was sacrificed. Lost natural mind.

A teaching only. As it is a teaching only.

We only had to discuss our living loving life re the son A ...as men of science sacrificed our biology. Small cells changed by giant heavens fall large pressure changes above.

In waters mass to reform new clouds.

A teaching.

New pressures above giant changed back to small.

Natural law owns pressures not a lying satanic mind with machines.

Lied..I took pressures built my machine

God in space isn't a machine

Man of science stated God is my machine by my mind

Now uses machines to control mind by contact.

I never knew any of this information before.

Proof.

Man used machine transmitted to machine only.

Now transmits at biology.

Is lying

Only satanic.minds say I must control.

God loving minds don't.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is the crux of the issue: How does God express that love?

That verse does not help me understand how God expresses love. It does not say anything about how God expresses His love for us. Why have you come to understand and to trust the love which God hath in us? For what reason?

I began to realize that yes, God created the heavens and the earth. And that true Christians do not go to war to kill others. And that He promises everlasting life without pain or sorrow. It isn't easy to suffer now but I understand why it happens. Later...

 

[YoursTrue]

That is the crux of the issue: How does God express that love?

That verse does not help me understand how God expresses love. It does not say anything about how God expresses His love for us. Why have you come to understand and to trust the love which God hath in us? For what reason?

Life is one way of God's expression of love. The sky was blue today, a very beautiful color. I believe God made that for us. Ttyl

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that I understand why the earth is in the situation it is in now and what is going to get us out of this situation.
However, I do not understand how that is related to how God expresses His love for us.

When you're suffering it's not easy to think about God's love. But the hope and promise of a better future can help us live as successfully as possible through the pain. I like Revelation 21:1-5 which was one of the first scriptures I read when I began studying.

 

[Trailblazer]

You forgot Muhammad and The Bab.

No, I did not forget them, I just did not mention them.

Something went wrong with the Messengers after Jesus, they turned against the other Biblical messengers.

No, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah all acknowledge Moses and Jesus and the biblical prophets.

Jesus is the image of the invisible God. How do you have more perfection than that? But Baha'u'llah says he has more perfection.

Baha'u'llah is also the image of the invisible God, but Baha'u'llah did not say He had more perfection than Jesus.
Why does one have to be better than the other?

 

[Trailblazer]

When you're suffering it's not easy to think about God's love.

I never believed that God's is loving, suffering or not. It is not about MY suffering, it is about all the suffering in the world, the suffering that Christians brush off in order to continue 'believing' that God is loving.

 

[Trailblazer]

Life is one way of God's expression of love. The sky was blue today, a very beautiful color. I believe God made that for us. Ttyl

Did God also make the earthquake, the tornado, the hurricane and the tsunami?