Could have Islam exist without Judaism & Christianity?

[Godobeyer]

You will be surprised to know that although these three prophets are not mentioned in the Qur'an, they are certainly considered as prophets in Islamic tradition.
Furthermore, if you still disregard them. Then we have plenty of other examples. There are no Islamic alternatives for the Biblical narratives about King David and Solomon, and those prophets of the People of Israel who ARE mentioned in the Qur'an. And of course no Islamic alternatives for the narratives about Jesus in the gospels.

what these three prophet not mentionned in Quran , and we considerate them Prophets ?

then if the Quran was wrote by Muhammad (pbuh) , how you explain that the people of Israel and other Prophets mentionned more than his name ?

But I just said that the word 'copy' is irrelevant. Muhammad and his followers did not 'copy' Judaism, they discussed Abrahamic traditions. I am saying that the Arabs knew the Jewish Abrahamic traditions before they became Muslims, and Muhammad and the Qur'an discussed these traditions more directly in the context of Monotheism, or what has emerged as Islam. It was a regional development.

that's just a doubt , had no historic evidence , because Muhammad (pbuh) was Illiterater , and it's highly impossible for illiterate to wrote something or tell something like the Quran .

for that we all the muslims believe :
Quran is sent by God to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) by angel Gabrial .

 

[Caladan]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[Godobeyer]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

realy Mr Caladan ?

but it's sounds good that your signature is verse explaination of Quran
i hope that i will see other one jewish "or christian" and secular and his signature is Islamic .
this is the best way to show respect to we each other "abrahimic religions" .

 

[beerisit]

accuatly
God in the Quran , did not mention to the contian of message (teaching) that
God gave to Adam (pbuh)

edited :
-maybe because that message in the special heaven between God and Adam , and maybe because Adam (pbuh) was the first sane human , which is suppose there were not much disbelievers, it's not necessaire to publish it to us .
because most of them were believers .

God the best knows .

but its certainly God taught him what He taught the other prophets and messangers .

No that isn't so. There is no message mentioned in the Torah or Qu'ran attributed to Adam and yet you say it's certain that Adam was a prophet and that he taught Islam. But you must have made that up, without any evidence.

 

[F0uad]

You will be surprised to know that although these three prophets are not mentioned in the Qur'an, they are certainly considered as prophets in Islamic tradition.
Furthermore, if you still disregard them. Then we have plenty of other examples. There are no Islamic alternatives for the Biblical narratives about King David and Solomon, and those prophets of the People of Israel who ARE mentioned in the Qur'an. And of course no Islamic alternatives for the narratives about Jesus in the gospels.

Trust me when i say this i am not surprised, and the General view of muslims is the opposite we do not consider these people as prophets at all, yes there are some who ''Think'' they are prophets according to Jewish traditions but Generally we do not belief that. Huh i still don't understand what your trying to point out are you saying that David(p), Sulimen(p) and Jesus(p) aren't mentioned? The story's are not even the same... so i really don't see your point...
Again i have to ask what does this have to do with the main question?

There is no better way I can say it. Give another read, I'm sure you'll understand.

I have even read it 4times i still so no point being made nor do i see how it has anything to do with the subject we are discussing. But maybe i am just stupid....

But I just said that the word 'copy' is irrelevant. Muhammad and his followers did not 'copy' Judaism, they discussed Abrahamic traditions. I am saying that the Arabs knew the Jewish Abrahamic traditions before they became Muslims, and Muhammad and the Qur'an discussed these traditions more directly in the context of Monotheism, or what has emerged as Islam. It was a regional development.

So what your saying is that Mohammed(saws) made up a religion that is based on Jewish tradition? For example seeing Jesus(p) as the Messiah and prophet, believing in judgement-day, hell, and the list goes on and on...

If you actually took time to study the history of Islam and how it emerged you would know that Mohammed(saws) really believed he got a revelation instead of '''discussing'' traditions with Jewish people, i am asking to provide any evidence you have shown Zero...

 

[F0uad]

No that isn't so. There is no message mentioned in the Torah or Qu'ran attributed to Adam and yet you say it's certain that Adam was a prophet and that he taught Islam. But you must have made that up, without any evidence.

Surah 2. verse 115
PICKTHAL: And verily We made a covenant of old with Adam, but he forgot, and We found no constancy in him.

 

[gnostic]

I think you are making one unreasonable assumption here. That is : All the biblical figures wouldnt exist if Judaism and Christianity didn't exist.

Well, actually I think a lot of biblical figures don't exist at all. You're forgetting I am not a Christian or Jew.

So I find that all Abrahamic faiths - including the big 3 - require unreasonable faith on scriptures from us.

There are several instances where the Qur'an exaggerate the biblical stories even more, so I find it completely unreasonable to accept your Islamic version at face value or literally.

 

[F0uad]

Well, actually I think a lot of biblical figures don't exist at all. You're forgetting I am not a Christian or Jew.

So I find that all Abrahamic faiths - including the big 3 - require unreasonable faith on scriptures from us.

There are several instances where the Qur'an exaggerate the biblical stories even more, so I find it completely unreasonable to accept your Islamic version at face value or literally.

Where is your proof that its ''Exaggerated'' and isn't the real message where the biblical stories have gone wrong... heck if you are a atheist you surely know Bart Erhman who describes in detail how the development of the gospels started and ended, you have ''faith'' that its copied/borrowed from other religions without having proof.

While on the other hand i have Hadiths ''Scripture'' that go back to the time of Mohammed(saws) that describes all the events that happened in detail and nothing of whatever you assumed and claimed shows as even a possibility that it happened or could have happened.

 

[Caladan]

Wow seems we really are back to square one. That's a shame.

Just a quick question Fouad. Do Islam and the Qur'an not discuss previous Israelite and Hebrew prophets?
If I want to read what these prophets have said in the most elaborative way, where do I turn to?
If I want to read the parables of Jesus, his actions, his miracles, or his preaching? in short the story of Jesus in full, which texts am I going to read?

 

[Godobeyer]

No that isn't so. There is no message mentioned in the Torah or Qu'ran attributed to Adam and yet you say it's certain that Adam was a prophet and that he taught Islam. But you must have made that up, without any evidence.

i post some verses before :


indeed God had message to Adam , but we had just some contain ,
the most important message , was God warning Adam (pbuh) and his wife Eve to don't listen to Satan .

2-31
And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.

2-33
He said: O Adam! Inform them of their names, and when he had informed them of their names, He said: Did I not tell you that I know the secret of the heavens and the earth? And I know that which ye disclose and which ye hide.


2-35
And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrong-doers.

2-37
Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.

20-115
And verily We made a covenant of old with Adam, but he forgot, and We found no constancy in him.



20-117
Therefor we said: O Adam! This is an enemy unto thee and unto thy wife, so let him not drive you both out of the Garden so that thou come to toil.


20-121/122
Then they twain ate thereof, so that their shame became apparent unto them, and they began to hide by heaping on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And Adam disobeyed his Lord, so went astray. 122 Then his Lord chose him, and relented toward him, and guided him.

 

[F0uad]

Wow seems we really are back to square one. That's a shame.

Just a quick question Fouad. Do Islam and the Qur'an not discuss previous Israelite and Hebrew prophets?
If I want to read what these prophets have said in the most elaborative way, where do I turn to?
If I want to read the parables of Jesus, his actions, his miracles, or his preaching? in short the story of Jesus in full, which texts am I going to read?

Nope the Quran never says go to the Injeel of Esha(p) because the injeel was a direct revelation to esha(p) we don't even know if it was a book and it certain weren't Gospel(S).
The Quran also never refers muslims to read the Torah because its said that the Torah has been altered.

It doesn't discuss them because its one being that is talking directly but it does describe Jewish Prophets yes.

But we do belief that some of the word God still contains in the Torah and ''Gospels''

For example the bible describes David(p) as a guy who committed adultery and who killed 200 philistines just to get permission of a king to have adultery, in the Quran he is described as a respectable messenger without ever doing these things, and many more prophets and messengers are so demonized in the bible that i can never accept these harmful things said about them and then to follow them. The Quran fixes the errors the bible has and is the real revelation without errors

 

[beerisit]

Surah 2. verse 115
PICKTHAL: And verily We made a covenant of old with Adam, but he forgot, and We found no constancy in him.

Are you serious? Adam had Alzheimers and forgot his message but he was still a prophet of Islam? Really?

 

[F0uad]

Are you serious? Adam had Alzheimers and forgot his message but he was still a prophet of Islam? Really?

Go troll somewhere else atheist


Go on shoo.. shoo.. olarbaby:

 

[gnostic]

Islam what was taught to Moses(p) What is called ''Judaism and changed'' (Muslims perspective) was the same message of the Quran before the changes.
Islam what was taught to Jesus(p) What is called ''Christianity has changed'' (Muslims perspective) was the same message of the Quran' before the changes.

If these are true, then why didn't Moses and Jesus called their religion - Islam?

They didn't because, Islam didn't exist prior to Muhammad.

Not one of the 50 or more prophets in the Bible ever called the religion - Islam. And you have problem with it not calling it Judaism or Christianity. I find that actually very funny.

 

[beerisit]

Go troll somewhere else atheist


Go on shoo.. shoo.. olarbaby:

So you can't support your claim? Please don't accuse me of trolling. I have asked you you several pertinant questions that you have failed to answer, why don't yo try that instead of slander?

 

[F0uad]

If these are true, then why didn't Moses and Jesus called their religion - Islam?

They didn't because, Islam didn't exist prior to Muhammad.

Not one of the 50 or more prophets in the Bible ever called the religion - Islam. And you have problem with it not calling it Judaism or Christianity. I find that actually very funny.

So wait.. you have nothing more to say so you pick out text..... :sleep:
First of all where is the proof they didn't like i said Muslims do not belief that the Torah or Bible are authentic, heck most atheist and gnostic's do not even belief this anyway this is a different subject.

If the definition of Islam means submission to god wouldn't they call it Islam, didn't Moses or Jesus (peace be upon them) submit themselves to god... They Did...

Nor did the 50 or more prophets in the bible ever called the religion Christianity funny right?..

 

[F0uad]

So you can't support your claim? Please don't accuse me of trolling. I have asked you you several pertinant questions that you have failed to answer, why don't yo try that instead of slander?

First of all i answer who i want to, secondly nobody fails in answering you...

And i don't take these kind of questions seriously:

Are you serious? Adam had Alzheimers and forgot his message but he was still a prophet of Islam? Really?

 

[beerisit]

BTW one of those questions regarded the teachings of prophets sent to other peoples and why they were'nt mentioned in the Qu'ran? The Qu'ran mentions that these prophets were sent but unlike the prophets of Judaism and Christianity it makes no mention of their stories or teachings or writings. Why is that?

 

[F0uad]

BTW one of those questions regarded the teachings of prophets sent to other peoples and why they were'nt mentioned in the Qu'ran? The Qu'ran mentions that these prophets were sent but unlike the prophets of Judaism and Christianity it makes no mention of their stories or teachings or writings. Why is that?

Yes it does... serious use google next time and actually do some research...
The difference between the bible and the quran is that the bible is maybe 3times bigger then the Quran so its normally more detailed. But Jewish prophets there stories and teachings also are mentioned in the Quran.

For example read the whole story of jesus(p) birth in the quran its much more detailed and it has much more information then that of the bible... compare those two and you will see a major difference.

 

[beerisit]

Yes it does... serious use google next time and actually do some research...
The difference between the bible and the quran is that the bible is maybe 3times bigger then the Quran so its normally more detailed. But Jewish prophets there stories and teachings also are mentioned in the Quran.

For example read the whole story of jesus(p) birth in the quran its much more detailed and it has much more information then that of the bible... compare those two and you will see a major difference.

I'm sorry but try reading my question before answering with nonsense. You will see that I mention JUDAISM and CHRISTIANITY. But I ASK about the prophets sent to all the other peoples of the earth.
Yes the Qu'ran contains stories from Judaism (Jews) and Christianity but doesn't contain stories from any of the other thousands of prophets mentioned in the Qu'ran. Can you explain this discrepancy? You see I've asked it again.