Critic on Islam

[ohhcuppycakee]

Don't pretending to answer my question by giving me a long statement. Did I say Ali R.A is wrong? But instead I put "I don't blame Ali bin Abi Talib R.A". I don't blame every sahaba. Not at all.

You really got me wrong. I will never, ever blame the sahaba for nothing. Now you have act like Shia. You blame Aisha R.A and the rest who join the war.

My opinion is it's just misunderstanding. Do you know who kill Uthman R.A? We don't. Uthman R.A don't go against his protester because he afraid that muslim will be divided. 40 of his servant ask permission from Uthman R.A to fight the rebels but he freed all 40 of them and told them to stay away from the rebels. Uthman R.A killed before the end of pilgrimage season because the protester afraid that they will be resistance from Mecca to help Uthman R.A.

Maybe there's a group who want the muslim to fight with each other. But we as a muslim cannot blame anyone in this case. Maybe it's the protester. But we can't accuse anyone right? Only Allah know the best.

Hadith:

I take this chance to talk on hadith. If I ever make mistake on my point, I hope you can teach what is right.

Hadith can be reliable or weak. How to know if it's reliable? I guess if many narrated the same or there's no changes in narration if the hadith is chained. (correct me if I was wrong). The most important hadith is about Syariah and history is the second place.

For example: You and me are studying in the same school and learning the same syllabus. Later, we compete in a quiz competition. The question is "Name a process that occur in plant to produce oxygen". We will answer 'photosyntesis' for sure. We had never discuss anything about science together before but we give the same answer because we're learning the same syllabus. I guess that's how hadith work.

Yes, and blaming them for starting the war does not make me a bad Muslim. I think Aisha jumped to conclusions because obviously Ali had nothing to do with the murder of Uthman. I give criticism where criticism where criticism is due. And saying sahaba did something wrong does not make me a bad Muslim.

Yes, I think there are people out there that want to cause problems between the different sects of Islam. I think the Sunni Shi'a is manipulated a lot in politics.

 

[beenie]

I'm not extremist my brother. I'm not trying to make you or everyone to hate them. But their accusation on the sahaba is unacceptable for muslim.

**sigh** I'm a sister, and I still refuse to judge other people.

Yes, and blaming them for starting the war does not make me a bad Muslim. I think Aisha jumped to conclusions because obviously Ali had nothing to do with the murder of Uthman. I give criticism where criticism where criticism is due. And saying sahaba did something wrong does not make me a bad Muslim.

Yes, I think there are people out there that want to cause problems between the different sects of Islam. I think the Sunni Shi'a is manipulated a lot in politics.

Totally agree.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

No hard feeling at all,its good to hear your opinion on your religion whether i agree with it or not,thats what this place is for.

I think you're not intrerested in discussing. For some reason I can smell that you're really emotional and offended. This is criticism not an arguement. You can freely post your doubt but please don't demonstrate any kind of statement that will make any party hurt. If you don't satisfy with my answer, you can tell me and Insya'allah I can make it more clear but not by using "Like i said,murder and taking Slaves in one hit,Muhammed and Islam were not the only army to commit these type of acts back in the 7th century but that doesn't excuse people behaving as if they were in the 7th century now ie having Slaves."

The individual you're criticising is an apostle of my religion. So, please be more gentle with your word.

Let's get back to the subject.

1. Slavery.
As I told, freeing slaves is a Sunnah of Rasulullah. Sunnah is greatly suggested. Every muslim will follow Sunnah as many as they can. Slave is bought and not free except for war captives. Slave can also buy their freedom from their master. This is very fair. I don't say that the slave don't deserve to be free straight away, but slavery is a custom and the master did buy them using their wealth. I never deny human's right but you can't also deny slavery is a custom long time ago(we can't change the past) and there's is a 'soft' way to dismiss it. In this process, we need to take care of the slave like our family.

Bracket ( ) below representing the point above:
Slave is considered as part of people's wealth. If you have a house(Slave) bought at 400k Dollars and I ask you to let it go, will you give it up? But, if I ask you to sell it (Slave buy for their freedom), you can consider my suggestion because you will get back what you have spend on. But, if you give that house freely (freeing the slaves), that is very charitable because you have donate 400k Dollars.

2.Aisha R.A
This topic is very deep. If you like to understand deep into this topic, I can help you. But if you don't, just hear the conclusion of it. I don't care whether at what age did Aisha R.A married to Rasulullah S.A.W but the hadith seems not agree with many other hadith. Since the hadith is not Shariah Law, it can be tolerated. Many hadith such as she engaged to a non-muslim when she was 6 and it's impossible for her to married to Muhammad S.A.W which is some years later when she was 7. Next, About the war. Only 15 years old and above are allowed to join which Aisha R.A joined. The lowest age it can be is around the teenage age and I think 19 is a good guess. The best guess of why with the hadith is maybe overlooked by Ulama'. But, only Allah know the best.

3. Banu Qurayza
I don't know on this matter deeply but I can tell you what is it on the surface of the story. Banu Qurayza incited many parties to go against muslim in the Medina. This action is violating the Constitution of Medina that agreed by all of it's citizen. From what I know, Banu Qurayza want to help the enemy after they got into the city. But the enemy cannot surpass the trench that was made by the people of Medina.

Then, Muhammad S.A.W was ordered by Allah to seize Banu Qurayza. Upon their arrival, according to this statement: "The prophet ordered it to be announced that none should perform the afternoon prayer until after he reached B. Qurayza. The apostle sent Ali forward with his banner and the men hastened to it. Ali advanced until he came near the forts he heard insulting language used of the apostle."

Banu Qurayza is judged by Sa'd who had been agreed by both muslim and jews. He is a from tribe of former allies of Banu Qurayza. Sa'd himself is a former Jew.

There's also an account that say Sa'd judged Banu Qurayza according to Torah itself.

Torah
"When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)"

I conclude this:
-The Muslims were in a treaty with the Banu Qurayza.

-The Pagans launched an offensive against the Muslims.

-The Banu Qurayza broke the treaty and joined the pagan offensive.

-The Banu Qurayza were simply waiting for the pagans to launch their complete offensive against the Muslims so they too could launch their offensive against the Muslims from the south.

-The Banu Qurayza had every intention of killing the prophet Muhammad and the entire Muslim community.

-When they are surrounded by Ali R.A, they insulted the Apostle instead of asking for forgiveness for their crime.

We don't have to look deep into it since it's very clear on the surface. If I have make mistake in my point, please tell me. Only Allah know the best.

Resource on Banu Qurayza:http://muslim-responses.com/Banu_Qurayza/Banu_Qurayza_

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Yes, and blaming them for starting the war does not make me a bad Muslim. I think Aisha jumped to conclusions because obviously Ali had nothing to do with the murder of Uthman. I give criticism where criticism where criticism is due. And saying sahaba did something wrong does not make me a bad Muslim.

Yes, I think there are people out there that want to cause problems between the different sects of Islam. I think the Sunni Shi'a is manipulated a lot in politics.

Actually, Shia is not blaming but accusing and disbeliving. I proved myself that I don't but they are. Accusing sahaba on being corrupt without prove is slandering. Take your time and think. I don't make you hate them but I want to illustrate the biggest differences but yet they claim that they follow the sunnah. How can we be the same if our basic is different.

For example: I can't be your brother if we're not from the same parents. But the Shia is like claiming that we are brother and sister but we don't share a same parents. How come?

There's maybe a group that incited muslim to go against muslim long time ago. But we're all well informed nowaday and we can tell. We Sunni don't blame anyone of the sahaba but yet the Shia's basic is disbelieving in some of the sahaba. Give me your thought.

The group that like to pretend as Islam have been stated in Al-Quran in Surah Al-Baqarah. Allah stated them as "buying digression by using the guidance". Allah also stated that it's not worth. If there's this kind of people, there is no doubt that this kind of people want to see the 'muslim vs muslim'.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

**sigh** I'm a sister, and I still refuse to judge other people.



Totally agree.

You just don't even care what happened around you. There's many criticism but I hear no answer from you. You like to stay still and be neutral. Sometimes we are tricked by our thought and mind. We afraid of being false even after the truth is infront of us. I now realize why men should be a leader.

This example might hurt certain people. So, I ask apology from the readers earlier.
A Gay couple think that it's their nature and reluctant to face the truth. If everybody turns gay and you're going to see the human extinction. We naturally know what we are intended for, so let no your mind and heart trick you. In Islam, this mentality can be considered a test in this life.

Sometimes our feeling can be manipulated by song but that will never change the reality. Song can make you in the mood but if it has stop playing, nothing will change. We only dragged by our feeling and we can't lie that it feels totally real. Again, I'm sorry for the example and if it hurt anybody.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

It is an excuse. and I've heard it a million times before. you've repeatedly said in this thread that Shia are not Muslim. Shia Islam is the second largest sect of Islam. and that tells us a lot about inner tensions in Islam, when so many Sunnis have been telling us that.



Egypt:

1952
1953 Nasser takes over presidency
1977 'Bread riots'. spontaneous uprising by hundreds of thousands of lower class people which effected every major city
2011 revolution

Syria:

1949 coup d'état by Col. Husni al-Za'im
1949 by Col. Sami al-Hinnawi, who was himself quickly deposed by Col. Adib Shishakli
1951,Shishakli launched a second overthrow
1954 President Shishakli was himself overthrown
1961 military overthrow led by Abd al-Karim al-Nahlawi
1963 coup, Ba'ath party comes to power
1966 a group of army officers carried out a successful, intra-party overthrow
1970 Hafez al-Asss over aad takend rules until he dies in 2000, living the rule to his son Bashar al-Assad
2011 uprising against Bashar al-Asad

Well I can't say anything since you don't know about what many muslim claim. I tell you a little bit of it but not about Shia, about munafik. Munafik is stated in Quran as exchanging guidence with digression; in other word, pretending to be muslim. Sometimes enemy is among us. I assume that this thing is explained and you have understood the concept.

That's sure a long list. Can you shortlist it to which was made sucessful by the civilian?

 

[beenie]

You just don't even care what happened around you. There's many criticism but I hear no answer from you. You like to stay still and be neutral. Sometimes we are tricked by our thought and mind. We afraid of being false even after the truth is infront of us. I now realize why men should be a leader.

This example might hurt certain people. So, I ask apology from the readers earlier.
A Gay couple think that it's their nature and reluctant to face the truth. If everybody turns gay and you're going to see the human extinction. We naturally know what we are intended for, so let no your mind and heart trick you. In Islam, this mentality can be considered a test in this life.

Sometimes our feeling can be manipulated by song but that will never change the reality. Song can make you in the mood but if it has stop playing, nothing will change. We only dragged by our feeling and we can't lie that it feels totally real. Again, I'm sorry for the example and if it hurt anybody.

You have become so disrespectful that it's become impossible for us to take your point seriously.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

Actually, Shia is not blaming but accusing and disbeliving. I proved myself that I don't but they are. Accusing sahaba on being corrupt without prove is slandering. Take your time and think. I don't make you hate them but I want to illustrate the biggest differences but yet they claim that they follow the sunnah. How can we be the same if our basic is different.

For example: I can't be your brother if we're not from the same parents. But the Shia is like claiming that we are brother and sister but we don't share a same parents. How come?

There's maybe a group that incited muslim to go against muslim long time ago. But we're all well informed nowaday and we can tell. We Sunni don't blame anyone of the sahaba but yet the Shia's basic is disbelieving in some of the sahaba. Give me your thought.

The group that like to pretend as Islam have been stated in Al-Quran in Surah Al-Baqarah. Allah stated them as "buying digression by using the guidance". Allah also stated that it's not worth. If there's this kind of people, there is no doubt that this kind of people want to see the 'muslim vs muslim'.

You really don't know anything about Shi'a Islam. All you are stating is the misconceptions out there about Shi'a. Again, do you even know any Shi'a Muslims in real life...? I have gone to Sunni masjid, I have gone to Shi'a masjid. Never did I once see any of them do what you have described. Both Sunni and Shi'a are MUSLIMS and nothing you can say will make me believe what you believe because I know better than that. And this is where are discussion ends.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

You have become so disrespectful that it's become impossible for us to take your point seriously.

This guy is either just crazy or a troll. I cannot figure out which. Don't even listen to him. He is not willing to listen to anyone else.

 

[uttam]

indian muslim perform haj pilgrimage at subsidized rate of air travel to macca and that subsidy is adjusted by indian govt from non muslim tax payers money. you can say most of the indian muslim go for haj at the cost of indian hindus and other religious tax payers money. I want to know is this haj pilgrimage justified in islam ?

 

[England my lionheart]

I think you're not intrerested in discussing. For some reason I can smell that you're really emotional and offended. This is criticism not an arguement. You can freely post your doubt but please don't demonstrate any kind of statement that will make any party hurt. If you don't satisfy with my answer, you can tell me and Insya'allah I can make it more clear but not by using "Like i said,murder and taking Slaves in one hit,Muhammed and Islam were not the only army to commit these type of acts back in the 7th century but that doesn't excuse people behaving as if they were in the 7th century now ie having Slaves."

I promise i'm not emotional and offended,i have no reason to be,you ask for criticism and i duly gave you some,the problem here is that i regard Muhammed as a figure from history but you regard him as a messenger of a God.

The individual you're criticising is an apostle of my religion. So, please be more gentle with your word.

See above

Let's get back to the subject.

OK

1. Slavery.
As I told, freeing slaves is a Sunnah of Rasulullah. Sunnah is greatly suggested. Every muslim will follow Sunnah as many as they can. Slave is bought and not free except for war captives. Slave can also buy their freedom from their master. This is very fair. I don't say that the slave don't deserve to be free straight away, but slavery is a custom and the master did buy them using their wealth. I never deny human's right but you can't also deny slavery is a custom long time ago(we can't change the past) and there's is a 'soft' way to dismiss it. In this process, we need to take care of the slave like our family.

Slavery is wrong and there is no excuse for it

( ) below representing the point above:
Slave is considered as part of people's wealth. If you have a house(Slave) bought at 400k Dollars and I ask you to let it go, will you give it up? But, if I ask you to sell it (Slave buy for their freedom), you can consider my suggestion because you will get back what you have spend on. But, if you give that house freely (freeing the slaves), that is very charitable because you have donate 400k Dollars.

But if nobody kept Slaves you wouldn't need 400k,Slavery is wrong it really is as simple as that IMO.

2.Aisha R.A
This topic is very deep. If you like to understand deep into this topic, I can help you. But if you don't, just hear the conclusion of it. I don't care whether at what age did Aisha R.A married to Rasulullah S.A.W but the hadith seems not agree with many other hadith. Since the hadith is not Shariah Law, it can be tolerated. Many hadith such as she engaged to a non-muslim when she was 6 and it's impossible for her to married to Muhammad S.A.W which is some years later when she was 7. Next, About the war. Only 15 years old and above are allowed to join which Aisha R.A joined. The lowest age it can be is around the teenage age and I think 19 is a good guess. The best guess of why with the hadith is maybe overlooked by Ulama'. But, only Allah know the best.

Again,its immaterial what i believe concening the marriage,the fact is that there are many Muslims who emulate the story of Child marriage,these are the people who need to be told.

3. Banu Qurayza
I don't know on this matter deeply but I can tell you what is it on the surface of the story. Banu Qurayza incited many parties to go against muslim in the Medina. This action is violating the Constitution of Medina that agreed by all of it's citizen. From what I know, Banu Qurayza want to help the enemy after they got into the city. But the enemy cannot surpass the trench that was made by the people of Medina.

The trench was a Persian anti Cavalry tactic which worked,as for the Banu Qurayza's fate i think they were very harsh cutting the heads off of hundreds of Men and taking their Women and Children into Slavery,even in the context of the time it was brutal and one would expect more from a religion of peace IMO.

Then, Muhammad S.A.W was ordered by Allah to seize Banu Qurayza. Upon their arrival, according to this statement: "The prophet ordered it to be announced that none should perform the afternoon prayer until after he reached B. Qurayza. The apostle sent Ali forward with his banner and the men hastened to it. Ali advanced until he came near the forts he heard insulting language used of the apostle."

How do you know Allah ordered him to do that,

Banu Qurayza is judged by Sa'd who had been agreed by both muslim and jews. He is a from tribe of former allies of Banu Qurayza. Sa'd himself is a former Jew.

I think the two words"former Jew" tell their own story

There's also an account that say Sa'd judged Banu Qurayza according to Torah itself.

Torah
"When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)"

I conclude this:
-The Muslims were in a treaty with the Banu Qurayza.

-The Pagans launched an offensive against the Muslims.

-The Banu Qurayza broke the treaty and joined the pagan offensive.

-The Banu Qurayza were simply waiting for the pagans to launch their complete offensive against the Muslims so they too could launch their offensive against the Muslims from the south.

-The Banu Qurayza had every intention of killing the prophet Muhammad and the entire Muslim community.

-When they are surrounded by Ali R.A, they insulted the Apostle instead of asking for forgiveness for their crime.

We don't have to look deep into it since it's very clear on the surface. If I have make mistake in my point, please tell me. Only Allah know the best.

Resource on Banu Qurayza:Banu Qurayza

To be fair Muhammed only did what many medaeval leaders did but this should be viewed in the context of the time,my criticism of Islam is that Islam as practised in the 7th century is brutal and unforgiving,the problem as i see it is many Muslims want the 7th century to continue.

 

[Caladan]

Well lets see.
you have asked for criticism. so we've brought a few honest issues. and what did we receive?
we were blamed for having hatred in our hearts, then we were blamed for being ignorant of Islam. and for good measure you've insulted women, decided to bring Israel into it, declared the second largest Muslim sect to be non Muslim, and now dragged homosexuals into this.
so far its seem that you are doing most of the criticism. and you are not very good at it.

 

[beenie]

Well lets see.
you have asked for criticism. so we've brought a few honest issues. and what did we receive?
we were blamed for having hatred in our hearts, then we were blamed for being ignorant of Islam. and for good measure you've insulted women, decided to bring Israel into it, declared the second largest Muslim sect to be non Muslim, and now dragged homosexuals into this.
so far its seem that you are doing most of the criticism. and you are not very good at it.

I'll have to agree here.
This is why it's so hard for people to debate with many Muslims; it's nearly impossible to stay on topic, and the constant "look at them" that frustrates everyone.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

indian muslim perform haj pilgrimage at subsidized rate of air travel to macca and that subsidy is adjusted by indian govt from non muslim tax payers money. you can say most of the indian muslim go for haj at the cost of indian hindus and other religious tax payers money. I want to know is this haj pilgrimage justified in islam ?

Honestly I don't know about this but whatt I do know is if we can't afford, we don't have to go.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Well lets see.
you have asked for criticism. so we've brought a few honest issues. and what did we receive?
we were blamed for having hatred in our hearts, then we were blamed for being ignorant of Islam. and for good measure you've insulted women, decided to bring Israel into it, declared the second largest Muslim sect to be non Muslim, and now dragged homosexuals into this.
so far its seem that you are doing most of the criticism. and you are not very good at it.

When did I insulted a woman? I have no intention on talking about Shia but 'ohhcuppycakee' decided to talk more on it and I got carried away. Don't take my opinion on Shia as your point. I don't know why you people take example very hard but I don't my because it mean nothing as I verily have stated it as an example. I always get to point and I hope you too do the same. I've ask you a favor by shortlisting the revolution list as it's hard for me to find it. I'm sorry if this burden you and you can just forget my request.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

You really don't know anything about Shi'a Islam. All you are stating is the misconceptions out there about Shi'a. Again, do you even know any Shi'a Muslims in real life...? I have gone to Sunni masjid, I have gone to Shi'a masjid. Never did I once see any of them do what you have described. Both Sunni and Shi'a are MUSLIMS and nothing you can say will make me believe what you believe because I know better than that. And this is where are discussion ends.

This statement is meaningless. I simplify my point.

Sunni: Don't hate sahaba and everyone.
Shia: Hating sahaba is the basic of their belief.

Use your brilliant to think. And I really hope you don't deny my point as this is from a reliable source. Wikipidea may not be very complete but it's basic about Shia is not wrong. If I was wrong, I really hope you can explain me what is the diffferent between Sunni and Shia. If you tell me Shia do not disbelieve in sahaba, this mean we're all Sunni because Sunni mean following Sunnah. Don't tell me there's no different.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

To be fair Muhammed only did what many medaeval leaders did but this should be viewed in the context of the time,my criticism of Islam is that Islam as practised in the 7th century is brutal and unforgiving,the problem as i see it is many Muslims want the 7th century to continue.

I expected this kind of answer. I wish you can respond according to my point. I don't think that you have even take time to read my statement.

1. Slavery
I don't know why you keep mentioning 'excuse'. This is not an excuse. What I just wrote is explaination. Now I ask you, do you believe in fairness?? I'm not denying human's right. But you can't deny the reality that slavery is a custom.

If you're a master: You'll get back what you have spend on.

If you're a slave: You can buy your freedom and you'll be treated like a family
by your master while waiting for your freedom.

But if nobody kept Slaves you wouldn't need 400k,Slavery is wrong it really is as simple as that IMO.

How can you erase slavery that have been there for centuries before Muhammad S.A.W from the history? What can you done if you're already spend 400k on the slave before Islam came??

2. Aisha

Again,its immaterial what i believe concening the marriage,the fact is that there are many Muslims who emulate the story of Child marriage,these are the people who need to be told.

What is your point. I have explain it to you. You ask me and I give the answer to you. Why with 'these are the people who need to be told'.

3. Banu Qurayza

the trench was a Persian anti Cavalry tactic which worked,as for the Banu Qurayza's fate i think they were very harsh cutting the heads off of hundreds of Men and taking their Women and Children into Slavery,even in the context of the time it was brutal and one would expect more from a religion of peace IMO.

First, I'm not talking about the trench. It's not even a point. You're busy saying " Banu Qurayza innocent, Banu Qurayza this, Banu Qurayza that" but you demonstrate no reliable point and there's no explanation. The main plot is THE BETRAYAL OF BANU QURAYZA. Do the betrayer is innocent? Even if they have surreneder, that doesn't change the reality that the have commits a big crime.

Think like this: A mass murderer have killed several people and hiding in a warehouse. The murderer surrendered. Finally, he will be sentenced to death. Wow, that's really innocent murderer.

Have you heard about Banu Nadir? They're not killed but they're only expelled from Medina.

There must be a reason. Only Allah know the best.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

This statement is meaningless. I simplify my point.

Sunni: Don't hate sahaba and everyone.
Shia: Hating sahaba is the basic of their belief.

Use your brilliant to think. And I really hope you don't deny my point as this is from a reliable source. Wikipidea may not be very complete but it's basic about Shia is not wrong. If I was wrong, I really hope you can explain me what is the diffferent between Sunni and Shia. If you tell me Shia do not disbelieve in sahaba, this mean we're all Sunni because Sunni mean following Sunnah. Don't tell me there's no different.

You don't even know any Shi'a Muslims at all, so anything you are saying right now is essentially baseless. That's like Christians who know absolutely no Muslims talking crap about Islam.

 

[England my lionheart]

I expected this kind of answer. I wish you can respond according to my point. I don't think that you have even take time to read my statement.

Perhaps i should have said Islam before what is viewed by some as innovations,this seems to be the goal of Salafis for example.

1. Slavery
I don't know why you keep mentioning 'excuse'. This is not an excuse. What I just wrote is explaination. Now I ask you, do you believe in fairness?? I'm not denying human's right. But you can't deny the reality that slavery is a custom.

I agree slavery was a custom but it shouldn't be a custom now,if your argument is that banning slavery had to be done gradually i think 1400 years and still going is rediculously gradual.

If you're a master: You'll get back what you have spend on.

The easiest way is not buying a slave in the first place,

If you're a slave: You can buy your freedom and you'll be treated like a family
by your master while waiting for your freedom.

In both the Bible and Qur'an it basically says that if you have slaves you must treat them well yet it was Human beings who convinced the world that slavery should be abolished,IMO nobody should have to buy their freedom and there is no excuse whether its a custom or not.



How can you erase slavery that have been there for centuries before Muhammad S.A.W from the history? What can you done if you're already spend 400k on the slave before Islam came??

In the context of the time i agree its no big deal,unfortunately slavery is still practiced today.

2. Aisha



What is your point. I have explain it to you. You ask me and I give the answer to you. Why with 'these are the people who need to be told'.

My point is grown Men are still obtaining Child Brides,if they believe that Aisha was married at 6 years old they can do the same thing because their Prophet did it ,because it sets a precedent, so if the hadith is false they are the ones that should be told.

3. Banu Qurayza


First, I'm not talking about the trench. It's not even a point. You're busy saying " Banu Qurayza innocent, Banu Qurayza this, Banu Qurayza that" but you demonstrate no reliable point and there's no explanation. The main plot is THE BETRAYAL OF BANU QURAYZA. Do the betrayer is innocent? Even if they have surreneder, that doesn't change the reality that the have commits a big crime.

Lets say it was a crime and the execution of 8 to 900 Men who have reached puberty was fair,how is it fair that Women and Children were taken into slavery and all their possessions too,would it be fair to punish a whole tribe or just the leaders


Think like this: A mass murderer have killed several people and hiding in a warehouse. The murderer surrendered. Finally, he will be sentenced to death. Wow, that's really innocent murderer.

Why punnish the Women and Children with slavery

Have you heard about Banu Nadir? They're not killed but they're only expelled from Medina.

Lucky them,although it was a great real estate deal for Muhammed

There must be a reason. Only Allah know the best.

Mmmm,thats only if you believe in Allah.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

You don't even know any Shi'a Muslims at all, so anything you are saying right now is essentially baseless. That's like Christians who know absolutely no Muslims talking crap about Islam.

Keep lying to yourself. You only fooling yourself but not me. You can say "essentially baseless" or "Christians who know absolutely no Muslims" but you have constantly dreaming from the beginning. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENT BETWEEN SUNNI AND SHIA?? You can't even answer a simple question. You're defenseless without point yet you talking nonsense as an answer to make you look right or feel right. Again, what make both of SUNNI and SHIA quarrel for some centuries if nothing is going on? Tell me if you're on the right side.

If you know real Shia in your life that belief in all of the sahaba, that make them Sunni not Shia. Then, what is the different? Answer my question using a fact. If you can't, you can stop typing nonsense.