Critic on Islam

[Terrywoodenpic]

If you ever believe in certain religion but you don't approve some of its teaching,
you better ask for an explanation on that particular thing. Combining aspect from
many religion is not brilliant at all. Combining mean that you do not even believe in a single religion.

All religions change in their teachings over time. As the world changes the scripture must be reinterpreted to take account of the new conditions and realities.
In this particular aspect the Jews are better at re-interpretation than any other religion I know.

I am sure that God expects us to use our intelligence to learn from the best aspects of each religion. There is no particular benefit from following only one religion's teachings. Truth may be found anywhere.
True, it is easier to follow rather than fully understand or think for your self. God expects us to use every thing he has given us , and that includes our minds and imaginations. People in the past were no more intelligent nor had more knowledge of the truth than we do today. Things that are old are no more reliable than new thoughts today.

 

[ngupta]

I'm generally far too concerned about my own religion and my practition of it to obssess myself with other religions and hate on them. I don't feel a need to go my way out and inspect other religions and compile their faults and make a show by putting them all out on display. I also find the idea of deriving pleasure of engaging in such action disgusting. I also think its weak to draw the comparison of other religions with yours just to make yours seem superior/magnify its value.

The Vedas declare God to be the Father of the universe and all His creatures. If I engage in dialogue with anyone, its to bring them closer to God. Thinking myself special by hurting the sentiments of others by claiming I know God better would be doing disservice to God. As this stirs resentment.

Thats how I feel. And I think it fits with the Hindu mentality.

 

[no-body]

If you ever believe in certain religion but you don't approve some of its teaching,
you better ask for an explanation on that particular thing. Combining aspect from
many religion is not brilliant at all.

Your opinion, though I understand in your mind that it is Gods too. Try to understand that others have a different mind set as difficult as that is for you.

Combining mean that you do not even believe in a single religion.

I do not since all religions are from men and corruptible. They each hold a piece of the truth, which is really only inside ourselves.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

All religions change in their teachings over time. As the world changes the scripture must be reinterpreted to take account of the new conditions and realities.
In this particular aspect the Jews are better at re-interpretation than any other religion I know.

I am sure that God expects us to use our intelligence to learn from the best aspects of each religion. There is no particular benefit from following only one religion's teachings. Truth may be found anywhere.
True, it is easier to follow rather than fully understand or think for your self. God expects us to use every thing he has given us , and that includes our minds and imaginations. People in the past were no more intelligent nor had more knowledge of the truth than we do today. Things that are old are no more reliable than new thoughts today.

I'm afraid not. Religions should never changes its teaching over time because they have claimed it's from God. Do you believe that God is perfect?? If you do, then you shouldn't doubt your faith. All religion claim that it was from God and not created by man. Religion that change their teachings over time has doubt in their heart that the religion itself is not from the Creator as it is not compatible in the so-called modern age.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Your opinion, though I understand in your mind that it is Gods too. Try to understand that others have a different mind set as difficult as that is for you.



I do not since all religions are from men and corruptible. They each hold a piece of the truth, which is really only inside ourselves.

Religion is not from man. It's from Allah and was carried by prophet to teach it to mankind. Prophet is not ordinary man since he was a chosen one.

 

[Caladan]

I'm afraid not. Religions should never changes its teaching over time because they have claimed it's from God. Do you believe that God is perfect?? If you do, then you shouldn't doubt your faith. All religion claim that it was from God and not created by man. Religion that change their teachings over time has doubt in their heart that the religion itself is not from the Creator as it is not compatible in the so-called modern age.

Wow. have you ever read Orientalism by Edward Said?
you are doing what Arab intellectuals have blamed westerners for doing for a long time. namely painting Arabs or Islam as a culture of fatalists, who are not preceptive for change. it is one of the classical themes which comes up in the discussion in Orientalism about the misconceptions non Arabs hold about the Arabs in the middle east.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Wow. have you ever read Orientalism by Edward Said?
you are doing what Arab intellectuals have blamed westerners for doing for a long time. namely painting Arabs or Islam as a culture of fatalists, who are not preceptive for change. it is one of the classical themes which comes up in the discussion in Orientalism about the misconceptions non Arabs hold about the Arabs in the middle east.

No. I haven't read the book that you stated.

 

[Caladan]

No. I haven't read the book that you stated.

You should. it was written by the most prominent Palestinian intellectual at the time. and its themes are being used to this day in discussions about east and west.

either way, your last post, and my first post, pretty much just met.
namely that you reaffirm our critique.
many of us today hold the opposite view. we believe that change comes to honest people, and that people should not shy away from it.
a culture which is not preceptive to change will usually find itself at odds with some of the major changes in the world, changes that many of us fully embraced.

 

[England my lionheart]

Thank you for your comment. I wonder why many people think that Quran cannot be combined with hadith. Al-Quran tell something in general and hadith
is an explanation for the verse in Al-Quran. You can't never find how to perform Solah(muslim prayer) in Quran because Quran only tell us to perform Solah but how to perform it was described in hadith.

I wonder what benefit there is in the ahadith if they teach killing Apostates,child marriage,slavery,murder,there are many unsavoury hadith to choose from,obviously if they contradict the Qur'an the the Qur'an is the final reference,unfortunately this isn't practiced by many Muslims worldwide.

There is no different of teaching in Islam. The basic is still the same. But there's a different of opinion on some minor topic that make it different. All my view is as a Sunni Muslim.

I disagree,from what i've seen there are many differences,after all your Prophet said of all the sects in Islam all will go to the fire except the one which is like Muhammed and the companions.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

I disagree,from what i've seen there are many differences,after all your Prophet said of all the sects in Islam all will go to the fire except the one which is like Muhammed and the companions.

The hadith about Muhammad S.A.W married to a child is weak and false for some reason. It was narrated by someone who learn a lot from his father which have moved from Medina to Iran. Iran is Shia's territory and Shia's people don't like Aisha. Moreover, Aisha has joined series of war in her life. Muhammad has put a strict rule to anybody who want to join the war must be 15 and above. Slavery?? I'm afraid there's no hadith that recommend slavery.

Never in any religion that promotes murder. Show me your proof. I haven't heard of any single hadith that allow to kill for no reason. But in the modern world, I have seen people that was killed for no reason and that will be palestinian.

We don't kill apostates right away. We will give them time to repent. If they insist to go on with their intention, we have no choice. Many that convert from Islam so that they don't have to abide by Syariah. They convert for freedom not because of disbelieve in religion.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

You should. it was written by the most prominent Palestinian intellectual at the time. and its themes are being used to this day in discussions about east and west.

either way, your last post, and my first post, pretty much just met.
namely that you reaffirm our critique.
many of us today hold the opposite view. we believe that change comes to honest people, and that people should not shy away from it.
a culture which is not preceptive to change will usually find itself at odds with some of the major changes in the world, changes that many of us fully embraced.

For religion people, changing the teaching of religion according to the current trend mean disbelieving. How can religion come from God if it is not compatible with our life. I believe that there's nothing that incompatible in religion and our daily life. If there's, I hope you can name it.

 

[Caladan]

For religion people, changing the teaching of religion according to the current trend mean disbelieving. How can religion come from God if it is not compatible with our life. I believe that there's nothing that incompatible in religion and our daily life. If there's, I hope you can name it.

This is a fatalistic circular reasoning. no matter how the argument is done, we will always come back to your assertion that religion came from God.
there is not much I can say about it is there?

 

[England my lionheart]

The hadith about Muhammad S.A.W married to a child is weak and false for some reason. It was narrated by someone who learn a lot from his father which have moved from Medina to Iran. Iran is Shia's territory and Shia's people don't like Aisha. Moreover, Aisha has joined series of war in her life. Muhammad has put a strict rule to anybody who want to join the war must be 15 and above. Slavery?? I'm afraid there's no hadith that recommend slavery.

I'm not going to go down the age of Aisha route although Child marriage is still a problem in places such as Saudi Arabia and the hadith on on her marriage sets a precedent for others to follow.

As for Slavery,as i'm sure you know in the Qur'an "what your right hand posseses" meaning seems pretty obvious,and the slaughter of the Banu Qurayza and selling of Women and Children into Slavery also encompasses murder and Slavery.

Never in any religion that promotes murder. Show me your proof. I haven't heard of any single hadith that allow to kill for no reason. But in the modern world, I have seen people that was killed for no reason and that will be palestinian.

Thats a can of Worms you are trying to open,maybe a deal could be struck,Medina which was a Jewish settlement can be kept by Islam and Palestine kept by Israel :cover:.

We don't kill apostates right away. We will give them time to repent. If they insist to go on with their intention, we have no choice. Many that convert from Islam so that they don't have to abide by Syariah. They convert for freedom not because of disbelieve in religion.

Sigh,thats good,you don't kill them straight away,i am humbled by such kindness,if they insist then shouldn't it be "you to your religion and me to mine",maybe they convert for freedom of concience.

IMO Islam has contradictions like "there is no compulsion in religion" and yet we know people are harshly dealt with for leaving Islam,it is good to free a Slave yet Slavery is alive and well in Islam,there are more but i guess i've been down this road before.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

The hadith about Muhammad S.A.W married to a child is weak and false for some reason. It was narrated by someone who learn a lot from his father which have moved from Medina to Iran. Iran is Shia's territory and Shia's people don't like Aisha. Moreover, Aisha has joined series of war in her life. Muhammad has put a strict rule to anybody who want to join the war must be 15 and above. Slavery?? I'm afraid there's no hadith that recommend slavery.

Never in any religion that promotes murder. Show me your proof. I haven't heard of any single hadith that allow to kill for no reason. But in the modern world, I have seen people that was killed for no reason and that will be palestinian.

We don't kill apostates right away. We will give them time to repent. If they insist to go on with their intention, we have no choice. Many that convert from Islam so that they don't have to abide by Syariah. They convert for freedom not because of disbelieve in religion.

Why would Shi'a change Aisha's age...? That would not make Aisha look bad at all, that would most likely make the Prophet (SAWS) look bad in others eyes...? We really don't know how old she was at the consummation of the marriage. Histories and ahadith are conflicting and estimates of her age range from 8 to 19 years old.

And please don't act like only non-Muslims have killed people for no reason, that is simply not true. Don't use this faulty reasoning.

The whole killing apostates thing doesn't even come from the Holy Qur'an. It comes from ahadith, which are HUMAN'S accounts of things Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said or did. I don't think you can look to ahadith for a matter so serious in taking someone's life and I don't care if some people don't like this opinion.

Oh, and can I ask you something? Are you from Malaysia or Indonesia by any chance? You put sy instead of sh.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

This is a fatalistic circular reasoning. no matter how the argument is done, we will always come back to your assertion that religion came from God.
there is not much I can say about it is there?

Yes, there's nothing much to say about. I just put a statement for those who claimed that their religion come from God and merrily change the teaching over time to suits the current trend.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Why would Shi'a change Aisha's age...? That would not make Aisha look bad at all, that would most likely make the Prophet (SAWS) look bad in others eyes...? We really don't know how old she was at the consummation of the marriage. Histories and ahadith are conflicting and estimates of her age range from 8 to 19 years old.

And please don't act like only non-Muslims have killed people for no reason, that is simply not true. Don't use this faulty reasoning.

The whole killing apostates thing doesn't even come from the Holy Qur'an. It comes from ahadith, which are HUMAN'S accounts of things Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said or did. I don't think you can look to ahadith for a matter so serious in taking someone's life and I don't care if some people don't like this opinion.

Oh, and can I ask you something? Are you from Malaysia or Indonesia by any chance? You put sy instead of sh.

If according to their believe and practise, you will(without doubt) consider them kafir. They will curse Abu Bakar, Umar and Aisha in their solah. They once betrayed Islam by helping the Mongol to kill Sunni. They claimed that many of Muhammad S.A.W companion is kafir.

I don't want to say that non-muslim kill people for no reason but it's true. Why do Israel kill Palestinian?? I heard thousand of people including woman and children were killed. The United Nation done nothing but watch it like a 18+ rated film that contain violence and gore.

Killing apostate is agreed by many Ulama'. If you don't believe in hadith, how can you be a muslim. The hadith was agreed by majority. Remember, there's always a good thing behind what was told by Prophet.

I'm from Malaysia.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

If according to their believe and practise, you will(without doubt) consider them kafir. They will curse Abu Bakar, Umar and Aisha in their solah. They once betrayed Islam by helping the Mongol to kill Sunni. They claimed that many of Muhammad S.A.W companion is kafir.

I don't want to say that non-muslim kill people for no reason but it's true. Why do Israel kill Palestinian?? I heard thousand of people including woman and children were killed. The United Nation done nothing but watch it like a 18+ rated film that contain violence and gore.

Killing apostate is agreed by many Ulama'. If you don't believe in hadith, how can you be a muslim. The hadith was agreed by majority. Remember, there's always a good thing behind what was told by Prophet.

I'm from Malaysia.

No, Shi'a people do not curse sahaba in their salah. Shi'a pray just like Sunni, except hands at their side and with a turbah. Where did you hear that? Do you even know any Shi'a people in real life...? I think it is best to ask the actual people from that sect instead of assuming the complete nonsense you hear about them on the television is true. If what the Western media portrays Islam is as wrong, wouldn't what Sunni media portrays Shi'a is as wrong as well...? We all fear what we do not know. And by the way, I think you should read up about the history after Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) death, and not from Malaysian or Indonesian sources.

Yes, what is going on in Palestine is disgusting, don't blame it on the people being non-Muslim though. Go to Pakistan and you will see what Muslims are wreaking havoc on other Muslims. Blowing up women, children, and elderly as well. All this violence needs to eradicated in this world.

Ahadith is not perfect, again. Only Al Qur'an is because it is from ALLAH. Ahadith is passed from person to person like the game telephone, do you think there has never been a mistake in it? If there wasn't, there would be no need for different grades of ahadith, would there? I'm not saying ahadith is worthless, I'm saying you should take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Caladan]

I don't want to say that non-muslim kill people for no reason but it's true. Why do Israel kill Palestinian?? I heard thousand of people including woman and children were killed. The United Nation done nothing but watch it like a 18+ rated film that contain violence and gore .

Again, you are only illustrating that some of the things you have been criticised for are actually true.
why do you bring Israel, when the Arab world has been in turmoil for months now?
thousands of people have been killed in SUNNI nations. not Israel, not the Unites States, and not Britain.
but Arab Sunni Muslim nations.
the fact that you chose to bring Israel, despite what the rest of us have been following in the news is ridiculous and grotesque.
I wonder, do you show the same concern for the Palestinians when its other Palestinians who kill them? or when they are oppressed or expelled by Arab countries?

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Again, you are only illustrating that some of the things you have been criticised for are actually true.
why do you bring Israel, when the Arab world has been in turmoil for months now?
thousands of people have been killed in SUNNI nations. not Israel, not the Unites States, and not Britain.
but Arab Sunni Muslim nations.
the fact that you chose to bring Israel, despite what the rest of us have been following in the news is ridiculous and grotesque.
I wonder, do you show the same concern for the Palestinians when its other Palestinians who kill them? or when they are oppressed or expelled by Arab countries?

Many muslim countries are currently under corrupt government. Even my own country ruled by a bunch of people who disobey their religion and claim that the country accept Islam as the official religion. We are trying to free ourselves from this kind of government. Sometimes it can't be done without bloodshed. Libya for example, the government itself kill its own people to continue ruling the country. Islam is now recovering from this kind of government and some have manage to do so.

Israel is another story. They came to Palastine and kill innocent people. And I don't think that UN can't do anything because Israel is the most powerful in military force today.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

No, Shi'a people do not curse sahaba in their salah. Shi'a pray just like Sunni, except hands at their side and with a turbah. Where did you hear that? Do you even know any Shi'a people in real life...? I think it is best to ask the actual people from that sect instead of assuming the complete nonsense you hear about them on the television is true. If what the Western media portrays Islam is as wrong, wouldn't what Sunni media portrays Shi'a is as wrong as well...? We all fear what we do not know. And by the way, I think you should read up about the history after Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) death, and not from Malaysian or Indonesian sources.

Yes, what is going on in Palestine is disgusting, don't blame it on the people being non-Muslim though. Go to Pakistan and you will see what Muslims are wreaking havoc on other Muslims. Blowing up women, children, and elderly as well. All this violence needs to eradicated in this world.

Ahadith is not perfect, again. Only Al Qur'an is because it is from ALLAH. Ahadith is passed from person to person like the game telephone, do you think there has never been a mistake in it? If there wasn't, there would be no need for different grades of ahadith, would there? I'm not saying ahadith is worthless, I'm saying you should take it with a grain of salt.

If you don't know, you better don't talk about Shia. They hate the companions of Muhammad S.A.W and his wife Aisha R.A. They glorify Abu Lu'lu'ah and build a tomb for him. Abu Lu'lu'ah is the one who killed Umar R.A. They claim that all of their imam is ma'soom (clean from mistakes and sin). Some of them will celebrate the death of Umar R.A. When I say curse, they really curse Aisha, Abu Bkr and Umar R.A.

See this video:

[youtube]vvK_zRsSEqc[/youtube]
Solat Syiah.flv - YouTube

It is written in Malay but the video will show you that they curse Aisha and Muhammad S.A.W.'s companion.

[youtube]ehobt0vg4jU[/youtube]
Tokoh Syiah diperangkap Ulama' Ahli Sunnah! Lawak! - YouTube

The second video is a debate of Sunni vs Shia. It is also written in Malay but it have the English subtitle.

Muslim is in struggle with corrupt government. Khalifah play a great role on prospering a country.

We need to believe in two thing: Al-Quran and Sunnah. There's many kind of hadith. If many Ulama' agree, there must be a reason. Hadith was sort according to it's narrator and the hadith narrated. Some hadith are chained and if it not differ from the first one, it will be accepted. If many people narrated a same hadith, how can it be wrong.