Culture clash in the hallway

[Vile Atheist]

I won't/can't answer for Smoke and Storm because I am not them. But I can answer for myself

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims cover their women in burkas?

This was a question that was in a reply to another question that went something like:

do you have any idea how that Muslim lady feel about some Muslim women being stabbed to death by Westerners?

Yeah...so whatever bigotry you just tried to expose....you failed.

 

[.lava]

If you need that a few more times, don't hesitate to request.

i've seen your politeness so far...you were the one who extend subject. you are the one who asked me questions like this....

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims cover their women in burkas?

do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Muslim women were raped in rape rooms?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Afghani law dictates a man can withhold food from his wife until he gets sex?

do you have any idea how us Muslims feel you pay no attention when same women were killed Western bombs?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims torture and execute gays in Iraq?

do you have any idea how us Muslims feel you do not defend rights of Muslims as much as you defend rights of gay people?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims execute someone for choosing to follow another religion besides Islam?

do you have any idea how us Muslims feel simply being a Muslim is reason enough to get killed?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslim nations use barbaric, medieval punishments for crimes?

do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Muslims civilians were killed by Western rockets for simply being in their own nation?

Do you have any idea how us Westerners feel when Muslims come to our Western nations and try to devalue all we've worked hard to achieve? Centuries of free-thinking? Hard fought and won freedoms?

do you have any idea how us Muslims feel our people are getting killed either by Western or terror groups Western supported?

you think as you like..i know myself well enough. i am not deluded, i am not mean and i am nothing like you know. you've asked all these questions and you had my reaction because you talk like there is no such a thing as Western criminals.

you did not get it when i said it for the first time. you won't get it now either. you extended this incident to many things as your questions show clearly. so i extended my reaction to all Western issue. there was nothing personal about you. i do not know you. i never meant to say anything personal to you until you call me things like barbarian. you were too fast to judge and unlike you claim Canadians to be, you are not polite at all. you are so rude to me. but so be it. i do not mind. i have no doubt about myself, i know that i would give in and ask for apology if i was friendly shown my mistake. you could not do that.






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[Vile Atheist]

Well, are you going to bother reading my comments in the other thread I linked to? While we're on the topic of bigotry and how I apparently support warcrimes, despite saying I'm against them many, MANY times, I think it's relevant.

 

[YmirGF]

Well, this thread certainly hasn't gone the way I expected it to go. So far, unless I have missed something, we had a misunderstanding the generated the OP because it was written about in a newspaper. Then, right here on RF we have two fairly pitched battles between Muslims and non-Muslims over practically everything but the kitchen sink. As I said, somewhat indignantly to Ghostaka, I didn't create this to be a flame war. I just found the story to be quirky and a bit of an oddity.

What puzzles me is the rationale of Muslims in regards to the plight of other Muslims the world over and throughout history. All hits against any Muslim are attacks on the Muslim you are dealing with by proxy. It is like a sense of nationalism on steroids. For instance, Muslims love to mention the crusades and how we have never stopped bugging them since. It's as if the person pointing at the crusades was literally there, during the fighting, for all the difference it makes.

What kind of bothered me was the idea that death threats are meant as an allusion and not meant seriously. That may be true in other countries, but it isn't true in Canada unless the person is obviously not serious. If said during a heated exchange I would take the comment very seriously and immediately have the person arrested. No "If, and's or buts" about it.

Only a lunatic or someone who was obviously joking would say such a thing as "I'll kill you..." I'd suggest that anyone who uses this grammatical "device" -- to stop doing so. It isn't cool, it isn't funny and it could be the sign of a mentally unstable personality. I suppose this is supposed to be similar to how placards saying, "Death to America" and "Death to unbelievers" are not meant literally, but in an amusing warm and fuzzy way. It's a bit of a strange way to further the image of a religion of peace.

I think the saddest part is that, for the most part, Muslims are their own worst enemy.

 

[Sahar]

Actually very few Western nations have banned the hijab. The only one I can actually think of is France and I'm not even sure if they went ahead and banned it.

So where is this "banning" you speak of?

Really?
French Anti-Hijab Law: Four Years On - IslamOnline.net - European Muslims
French Muslim Women: Daring to Take it to Court? - IslamOnline.net - European Muslims
Belgian City Bans Hijab - IslamOnline.net - News
German State Bans "Grace Kelly" Hijab - IslamOnline.net - News
German State Bans Hijab-clad Teachers - IslamOnline.net - News

Allah forbid women get to choose to wear what they wish. Ironic, as you complain in your previous question about how Muslim women are apparently "banned" from wearing a hijab.

Then why did you complain about Muslim women wearing niqab?

Though some Western governments support Israel (not all), there are vast amounts of people within the West that oppose Israel's crimes, massacres, and racism. Myself included in that.

The vast majority supports Israel's crimes, governments and people...

Canada has done no such thing. In fact, Canada in Afghanistan has not only beat back the Taliban from the Kandahar area. The stark reality is that there can be no progress in Afghanistan without security. The Canadian Forces, along with Afghan security forces, are helping to create a secure environment where good governance and development can be promoted and sustained.

How sweet, so the Canadian soldiers bothered themselves traveling all this way to help the people there, oh...(by sharing in the occupation of their country)
And why did you suddenly turn from talking about the West as a whole to about Canada specifically?!! :sarcastic All your previous answers included, France, USA and Western nations in general!!

 

[Vile Atheist]

*responding to the wall of inane questions*

What part of this statement do you not get: I revile all suffering, regardless of who the perpetrator is and who the victim is? I'll help you through it. What part is it?

And those initial questions of mine were in response to your own. Do you think Muslims are the only ones who suffer in this world? Do you honestly?

you think as you like..i know myself well enough. i am not deluded, i am not mean and i am nothing like you know. you've asked all these questions and you had my reaction because you talk like there is no such a thing as Western criminals.

Learn to read, honestly. And I quote myself again. In big bold letters so you can see it:

I recognize there are crimes committed by Western troops in Muslim countries. But I also recognize some good is being done too with good intent in many soldiers minds. What is the problem her?[/quote]

you did not get it when i said it for the first time. you won't get it now either. you extended this incident to many things as your questions show clearly. so i extended my reaction to all Western issue. there was nothing personal about you. i do not know you. i never meant to say anything personal to you until you call me things like barbarian. you were too fast to judge and unlike you claim Canadians to be, you are not polite at all. you are so rude to me. but so be it. i do not mind. i have no doubt about myself, i know that i would give in and ask for apology if i was friendly shown my mistake. you could not do that.

I am rude to you now?

You've accused me of supporting warcrimes. You've called me a hypocrite when I've repeatedly demonstrated to you with these big bold quotes that I am no such thing. You try to insinuate I'm a bigot, a racist. You then try to justify crimes of Muslims with the crimes of Western nations. It is that backwards thinking and behaviour that has earned you the epithet "barbarian".

And no, Canadians are polite to people who are respectful. I was willing to respect you and your way of thinking up until you started blatantly disregarding everything I say and accusing me of things I've said repeatedly I'm against. Like warcrimes.

Again, read my comments in that other thread. That's a guy who - according to you - supports warcrimes. Yeah, go take a look at my quotes and see exactly why you are a barbarian for accusing me of these things.

 

[Gharib]

Well, this thread certainly hasn't gone the way I expected it to go. So far, unless I have missed something, we had a misunderstanding the generated the OP because it was written about in a newspaper. Then, right here on RF we have two fairly pitched battles between Muslims and non-Muslims over practically everything but the kitchen sink. As I said, somewhat indignantly to Ghostaka, I didn't create this to be a flame war. I just found the story to be quirky and a bit of an oddity.

What puzzles me is the rationale of Muslims in regards to the plight of other Muslims the world over and throughout history. All hits against any Muslim are attacks on the Muslim you are dealing with by proxy. It is like a sense of nationalism on steroids. For instance, Muslims love to mention the crusades and how we have never stopped bugging them since. It's as if the person pointing at the crusades was literally there, during the fighting, for all the difference it makes.

What kind of bothered me was the idea that death threats are meant as an allusion and not meant seriously. That may be true in other countries, but it isn't true in Canada unless the person is obviously not serious. If said during a heated exchange I would take the comment very seriously and immediately have the person arrested. No "If, and's or buts" about it.

Only a lunatic or someone who was obviously joking would say such a thing as "I'll kill you..." I'd suggest that anyone who uses this grammatical "device" -- to stop doing so. It isn't cool, it isn't funny and it could be the sign of a mentally unstable personality. I suppose this is supposed to be similar to how placards saying, "Death to America" and "Death to unbelievers" are not meant literally, but in an amusing warm and fuzzy way. It's a bit of a strange way to further the image of a religion of peace.

I think the saddest part is that, for the most part, Muslims are their own worst enemy.

this thread has gone exactly the way you wanted it to Ymir.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Well, this thread certainly hasn't gone the way I expected it to go. So far, unless I have missed something, we had a misunderstanding the generated the OP because it was written about in a newspaper. Then, right here on RF we have two fairly pitched battles between Muslims and non-Muslims over practically everything but the kitchen sink. As I said, somewhat indignantly to Ghostaka, I didn't create this to be a flame war. I just found the story to be quirky and a bit of an oddity.

What puzzles me is the rationale of Muslims in regards to the plight of other Muslims the world over and throughout history. All hits against any Muslim are attacks on the Muslim you are dealing with by proxy. It is like a sense of nationalism on steroids. For instance, Muslims love to mention the crusades and how we have never stopped bugging them since. It's as if the person pointing at the crusades was literally there, during the fighting, for all the difference it makes.

What kind of bothered me was the idea that death threats are meant as an allusion and not meant seriously. That may be true in other countries, but it isn't true in Canada unless the person is obviously not serious. If said during a heated exchange I would take the comment very seriously and immediately have the person arrested. No "If, and's or buts" about it.

Only a lunatic or someone who was obviously joking would say such a thing as "I'll kill you..." I'd suggest that anyone who uses this grammatical "device" -- to stop doing so. It isn't cool, it isn't funny and it could be the sign of a mentally unstable personality. I suppose this is supposed to be similar to how placards saying, "Death to America" and "Death to unbelievers" are not meant literally, but in an amusing warm and fuzzy way. It's a bit of a strange way to further the image of a religion of peace.

I think the saddest part is that, for the most part, Muslims are their own worst enemy.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[.lava]

Well, are you going to bother reading my comments in the other thread I linked to? While we're on the topic of bigotry and how I apparently support warcrimes, despite saying I'm against them many, MANY times, I think it's relevant.

are you talking to me?





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[Gharib]

Couldn't agree more.

are you still falling for his crap?

 

[Sahar]

this thread has gone exactly the way you wanted it to Ymir.

:yes:

 

[.lava]

I am rude to you now?

You've accused me of supporting warcrimes. You've called me a hypocrite when I've repeatedly demonstrated to you with these big bold quotes that I am no such thing. You try to insinuate I'm a bigot, a racist. You then try to justify crimes of Muslims with the crimes of Western nations. It is that backwards thinking and behaviour that has earned you the epithet "barbarian".

And no, Canadians are polite to people who are respectful. I was willing to respect you and your way of thinking up until you started blatantly disregarding everything I say and accusing me of things I've said repeatedly I'm against. Like warcrimes.

since you always missed the point or maybe i am not good at explaining myself.....let me say it clearly;

i do believe you

Again, read my comments in that other thread. That's a guy who - according to you - supports warcrimes. Yeah, go take a look at my quotes and see exactly why you are a barbarian for accusing me of these things.

there is NOTHING personal about you. I DON'T KNOW YOU. i never thought you support war crimes and i do not think you feel no compassion for Muslims.




.

 

[YmirGF]

this thread has gone exactly the way you wanted it to Ymir.

You are quite wrong -- as usual, Eselam, but hey... believe whatever you wish.

 

[YmirGF]

:yes:

I'm not forcing people to post their less than enlightened thinking here, not4me. I am actually surprised. But I guess I am just lying, right?

 

[Gharib]

You are quite wrong -- as usual, Eselam, but hey... believe whatever you wish.

and you still have a face to call me wrong.

i have seen the true intentions of some people in this thread. and i certainly have seen yours, not only in this thread but others before this too.

 

[Vile Atheist]

In response to everyone at once:

1) I REVILE ALL SUFFERING IN THIS WORLD, NO MATTER WHO SUFFERS IT AND NO MATTER WHO IS AT THE HANDS OF IT.

2) THE WORLD IS NOT PERFECT. WESTERN NATIONS HAVE MADE MISTAKES. MUSLIM NATIONS HAVE MADE MISTAKES. HOWEVER, WE ALL HAVE TO SHARE THIS MISERABLE BLUE DOT, SO LET'S STOP FREAKING KILLING EACH OTHER, EH?

3) I SUPPORT THE EQUALITY OF EACH AND EVERY GROUP, BE IT RELIGIOUS, RACIAL, SOCIAL, SEXUAL-ORIENTATION, GENDER, OR ANY OTHER GROUP. WE ARE ALL HUMANS AND ALL EQUALS.

4) I REVILE THOSE WHO SUPPORT INEQUALITY. INEQUALITY LEADS TO SUFFERING AMONG PEOPLE. THUS, WE SHOULD MAKE IT PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT WE WILL NOT TOLERATE INEQUALITY.

5) AND I DO MEAN THIS IN A NON-OFFENSIVE WAY. I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE'S BELIEFS OR CULTURE . BUT WHEN THEY CAUSE A STINK - AS IN THE ARTICLE - AND INTERFERE WITH THE NORM, THEN THAT PERSON SHOULD EITHER LEARN TO ADAPT OR FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO LIVE.

6) IT IS USELESS TO SHOUT "WESTERN WARCRIMES" AT ME BECAUSE I REVILE THEM JUST AS MUCH AS YOU! THIS IS THE VITAL INFORMATION YOUR SKULLS SEEM IMPERVIOUS TO.

7) WHENEVER I SEE INEQUALITY IN ACTION - OR AT LEAST THE PERCEPTION OF IT - I WILL SPEAK OUT.

8) GET THIS WEIRD IDEA OUT OF YOUR HEADS THAT THE WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST ARE BY ANY MEANS SUPPORTED BY MOST PEOPLE IN EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICA. THEY ARE FOR THE MOST PART NOT.

9) I SUPPORT HUMANITARIAN MISSIONS AND IF THAT MEANS THAT MY COUNTRYMEN HAVE TO GO THERE WITH GUNS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND OTHERS - THEN THAT IS ACCEPTABLE. IF YOU DON'T THINK SO, TOUGH. WE WANT OUR SOLDIERS TO COME HOME ALIVE. WE DON'T WANT ANYONE IN THIS WORLD TO SUFFER IF THERE IS NO NEED TO.

10) THIS IS IT. IF YOU PEOPLE CANNOT ABSORB THESE TEN MAIN POINTS INTO YOUR HEADS AND DISPEL ALL PRE-CONCEIVED NOTIONS YOU HAD, THEN SO BE IT. I DON'T HATE YOU. BUT I HATE WHAT SOME PEOPLE DO IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. AND THAT INCLUDES ALL THE WONDERFUL EXAMPLES GIVEN PREVIOUSLY IN THE THREAD BY OTHERS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT - IF YOU THINK THAT'S BIGOTRY, TOUGH. REFER TO POINT 7 IF YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE.

 

[Vile Atheist]

since you always missed the point or maybe i am not good at explaining myself.....let me say it clearly;

i do believe you



there is NOTHING personal about you. I DON'T KNOW YOU. i never thought you support war crimes and i do not think you feel no compassion for Muslims.




.

Great. Then I'm glad we can understand each other.

 

[YmirGF]

and you still have a face to call me wrong.

I've rarely seen you say anything right, let alone "frubal worthy", dear fellow.

i have seen the true intentions of some people in this thread. and i certainly have seen yours, not only in this thread but others before this too.

Ok, why don't you tell my about my "true intentions", as you see them. I'd be quite fascinated to see how your brain works... assuming that it does, of course.

 

[Gharib]

I've rarely seen you say anything right, let alone "frubal worthy", dear fellow.

Ok, why don't you tell my about my "true intentions", as you see them. I'd be quite fascinated to see how your brain works... assuming that it does, of course.

you have got to be one of the most pathetic, double faced members on RF.

it is a pitty that most people can't see that.

 

[Sahar]

i never meant to say anything personal to you until you call me things like barbarian.

Being a Muslim makes you barbarian, don't you know this sis? and since you are a Muslim woman, it means you are oppressed and brainwashed by Muslim men too.