Culture clash in the hallway

[blackout]

I am a true individualist,
and a woman who loves ALL women. deeply.

As long as a woman is FREE TO CHOSE whatever it is that she does or doesn't want to wear,
I really don't care what she does or doesn't wear.
I care much more about the freedom of her individual,
and her freedom to individuality,
than I do about her personal style of dress.

Really I want to see women uplifted.
I want to see each woman realize/REALize-and express- her goddess within,
In whatever way is a natural and personal reflection of her own personally fashioned Self.

 

[Gharib]

i did say to UV to wright her statement in capital letters, didn't i?

But the keyword is CHOOSE. If the burka is being forced on a woman - and in a lot of cases it is - then there is no choice.

yes that is the keyword, cos i don't think wester women have a right in that word.

they are forced into nudity. to please men. why don't westen men dress to please women? cos they are in controll of themself, it is a shame that none of you see this.

I personally oppose the burka and hijab, but that's just my opinion and nothing more.

just like i oppose nudity and the whorelike treatment of women. they are not a trophy, they are human beings, you (not you personally) do not have more rights than them.

listen up everyone, are these pitty insulsts going to be left behind or what?

i will not take these king of posts with calmness andtolerance, i will be just as rude as i feel the other posts are to my religion.

 

[Vile Atheist]

yes that is the keyword, cos i don't think wester women have a right in that word.

they are forced into nudity. to please men. why don't westen men dress to please women? cos they are in controll of themself, it is a shame that none of you see this.

They aren't forced into anything. They dress how they please.

But since you wish to speak of forcing, how bout this nice little Muslim girl who would've had a bright future, but instead her father decided to kill her for not wearing a hijab to school:

Father killed daughter for not wearing hijab, her friends say (Religion Of Peace alert)

In Toronto, no less. And you want to talk about forcing?

just like i oppose nudity and the whorelike treatment of women. they are not a trophy, they are human beings, you (not you personally) do not have more rights than them.

listen up everyone, are these pitty insulsts going to be left behind or what?

i will not take these king of posts with calmness andtolerance, i will be just as rude as i feel the other posts are to my religion.

My, my. Hopefully you have a little more tolerance than this Muslim father WHO DECIDED TO KILL HIS OWN 16 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER, by the way...I put that in the capital letters you're so fond of, just so you get the message.

 

[Gharib]

They aren't forced into anything. They dress how they please.

But since you wish to speak of forcing, how bout this nice little Muslim girl who would've had a bright future, but instead her father decided to kill her for not wearing a hijab to school:

Father killed daughter for not wearing hijab, her friends say (Religion Of Peace alert)

In Toronto, no less. And you want to talk about forcing?



My, my. Hopefully you have a little more tolerance than this Muslim father WHO DECIDED TO KILL HIS OWN 16 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER, by the way...I put that in the capital letters you're so fond of, just so you get the message.

are we really going to continue with this?

 

[blackout]

they are forced into nudity. to please men. why don't westen men dress to please women? cos they are in controll of themself, it is a shame that none of you see this.


just like i oppose nudity and the whorelike treatment of women. they are not a trophy, they are human beings, you (not you personally) do not have more rights than them.

Why can you not understand that Women dress provocatively
and in ways revealing of their womanly beauty,
FOR THEMSELVES. NOT for men.
Why does the thought of a woman even being some kind of a "trophy" even enter your mind?
As IF A woman need be associated with a man at all...
and worse yet... as if she were some kind of "belonging" or "adornment" FOR him. :no:
If I feel happy and empowered in Self chosen fashions that show skin...
because I LIKE my own skin... and I am comfortable in it.
what is it to you? or anybody else?

I dress down for ME first.
Then women.
and LASTLY men.
I don't dress for others.
The adornment of my witchy womanly visage is my own labor of love.
It makes me happy. It's part of what makes ME, me.

 

[Vile Atheist]

are we really going to continue with this?

So long as anyone advocates the repression of women, yes. I will "continue with this" as long as possible.

 

[Gharib]

Why can you not understand that Women dress provocatively
and in ways revealing of their womanly beauty,
FOR THEMSELVES. NOT for men.
Why does the thought of a woman even being some kind of a "trophy" even enter your mind?
If I feel happy and empowered in Self chosen fashions that show skin...
what is it to you? or anybody else?

I dress down for ME first.
Then women.
and LASTLY men.
I don't dress for others.
The adornment of my witchy womanly visage is my own labor of love.
It makes me happy. It's part of what makes ME, me.

i don't want to asnwer the questions in your post UV, i don't think it is healthy to start descriminating other cultures. so i am asking if everyone agrees to stop with this?

 

[Gharib]

So long as anyone advocates the repression of women, yes. I will "continue with this" as long as possible.

don't get me started maximus.

and i don't thik i will, i'd rather not waste any time on this anymore capish?

 

[blackout]

i don't want to asnwer the questions in your post UV, i don't think it is healthy to start descriminating other cultures. so i am asking if everyone agrees to stop with this?

I edited and added to my post up above.

BTW... I'm only asking you to see the truth on the OTHER side of the coin...
or hallway... so to speak.
It runs BOTH ways.

 

[Vile Atheist]

don't get me started maximus.

and i don't thik i will, i'd rather not waste any time on this anymore capish?

One thing I want to make perfectly clear is that I don't hate Muslims or Islam. I dislike the Muslims who use Islam to justify bigotry. Just as I dislike the Christians or Jews or any other religious followers who use their religions to justify their bigotry. And I dislike any teaching - Islamic or not - that leads to the repression of any group of people.

 

[Gharib]

I edited and added to my post up above.

BTW... I'm only asking you to see the truth on the OTHER side of the coin...
or hallway... so to speak.
It runs BOTH ways.

i'm not the one who needs to see the other side of the coin, i'm just doing this cos it is done to me.

you might want to question yourself, if you think i'm the one who needs to see the other side of the coin.

 

[blackout]

i'm not the one who needs to see the other side of the coin, i'm just doing this cos it is done to me.

you might want to question yourself, if you think i'm the one who needs to see the other side of the coin.

EVERYBODY needs to see the other side of the coin.

I do not, in any way, think you are the only one who needs to see the other side of the coin.

 

[Gharib]

One thing I want to make perfectly clear is that I don't hate Muslims or Islam. I dislike the Muslims who use Islam to justify bigotry. Just as I dislike the Christians or Jews or any other religious followers who use their religions to justify their bigotry. And I dislike any teaching - Islamic or not - that leads to the repression of any group of people.

so then why do you pin such people and their actions to islam and the muslims when you very well know whats going on?

and oppression is forbiden in islam, it is considered a greater sin than killing someone. and here you are saying that muslim women are oppressed and have no equal rights.

give me 5 mins, i will get you a link to read.

 

[Vile Atheist]

i'm not the one who needs to see the other side of the coin, i'm just doing this cos it is done to me.

you might want to question yourself, if you think i'm the one who needs to see the other side of the coin.

It is precisely that attitude of yours that people like me will never desist in being loud and noisy, exposing blatant falsehoods that are thrown out in an attempt to call the other side "intolerant" or "racist" without actually seeing why people like me are being loud and noisy about such issues.

And I've told you exactly why in many, many posts. And if this is something you disagree with, then all my criticisms are levelled at you as well. And anyone else who thinks the repression of any group can be justified - either culturally or religiously.

I think deep down you really are a good person. But you need to realize that it is immoral and wrong to repress anyone. However, it is not wrong - and it is even encouraged - to criticize. This is legitimate criticism. This is not some sort of irrational, factless, nauseating tirade I go on about all the time. I've shown you and other Muslims in this very thread that. I've given you evidence of what I claim.

 

[Vile Atheist]

so then why do you pin such people and their actions to islam and the muslims when you very well know whats going on?

and oppression is forbiden in islam, it is considered a greater sin than killing someone. and here you are saying that muslim women are oppressed and have no equal rights.

give me 5 mins, i will get you a link to read.

Are you kidding me? Are you honestly kidding me?

Have you not read ANYTHING I've posted?

Edit: I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry.

And to say that Muslim women are not oppressed is a blatant lie.

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/articles/islam-and-womens-rights

 

[Ghostaka]

I've shown you and other Muslims in this very thread that. I've given you evidence of what I claim.

Wow dude, you fell into the trap . This thread really didn't have any other purpose but to start a Flame War. Why can't you see that?

Peace be upon you.

 

[Gharib]

read the link maximus

A Commentary on The Quran, Sura 4 Verse 34 by Dr. Ahmad Shafaat

yes people do use religion as a get away for their bed doings, but don't pin it on islam, one mans doins isn't my doing or that of islam.

 

[Vile Atheist]

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I've even blatantly said it is not Islam I oppose, but the ones using Islam to justify this oppression and bigotry

I hope you see it now.

 

[Gharib]

I hope you see it now.

you still don't get it man.

this is what you said

I dislike the Muslims who use Islam to justify bigotry.

islam does not support bigotry

islam does not support oppression

islam does not support that wich you think it supports

now if you want to know what islam supports and what it doesn't i suggest you ask muslims about it. do we have a deal?

 

[Vile Atheist]

[SIZE=-1]"Because God has favoured some of them more than others". It is not explicitly stated here who is favoured more than whom but in view of the context it is probable that men are understood in some way to be favoured more than women. But in what way? Again no answer is given in the verse under consideration or elsewhere in the Qur'an. But we can justifiably take the reference to physical strength and energy in which men generally excel women and which enables men to guard women against some of the dangers to which they may be exposed in society and to take care of some of their needs.

Supports inequality

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The first reason then why men are qawwamun over women is their physical ability to protect women. The second is that "they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth." Although the Holy Qur'an permits women to earn and own wealth, it expects that men will generally be able to earn more than women because of the natural differences between them. This means that they will generally be responsible for the economic needs of women and this responsibility also makes them qawwamun.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

This sort of thinking died out in the 1950s in Western countries.

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]In thinking of men as qawwamun over women we should not limit their role to mere protectors and providers. Properly taking care of women requires more than ensuring their physical security and providing food and shelter. It also requires looking after their psychological and emotional needs which can be summed up in terms of the need for love (30:21). Thus man's role in the relationship between men and women (as husbands and wives) generally consists of three things: protecting the woman, looking after her economic needs and giving her love.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

Because obviously women aren't able to take care of themselves, right?

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Since men are qawwamun over their wives, they must have some authority to make decisions, for a person cannot be an effective guardian or maintainer of someone without having some decision making authority. And whenever there is legitimate decision-making authority on one side, there is some necessity of obedience from the other. In Hadith there are many traditions which encourage women to be obedient to their husbands. Some of these traditions are no doubt forged, being attempts by later Muslims to subjugate their women (1), but others look authentic (2). Thus the Qur'an and Hadith do teach that women should obey their husbands. But this "should" is not a "should" of moral or religious obligation. The Qur'an and authentic ahadith do not command women to be obedient to their husbands, so that it is not a sin on their part if they sometime do not listen to their husbands. The Qur'an and Hadith consider obedience to the husband as simply a desirable quality of the wife.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

Women are not dogs, they are not meant to be "obedient" to their husbands.

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The "authority" on the husband should not be thought of in terms of the authority of a ruler or a boss. The very personal nature of the relationship between husband and wife and the love and affection which must characterize that relationship (30:21) should be reflected in the way the husband exercises his authority. In particular, he should always fully take into account her feelings on every matter. In Islam, even rulers and bosses are ordered to take into account the views of those in their charge; in case of husbands this is all the more necessary and natural. Likewise, the obedience of the wife to the husband should also reflect the personal and tender nature of their relationship. In particular, it should not be a forced obedience but rather should come naturally out of her love and respect for the husband.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

So this is the rationale behind the Afghani law that states a husband can withhold food from his wife if she does not give him sex?


I got halfway down the page and I couldn't read this disgusting justification any longer. For inequality and for women to be "obedient" to their husbands as if they are animals to be treated as such.
[/SIZE]