Culture clash in the hallway

[Gharib]

If you see men and women as equals, I have no quarrel with you. Peace

i never said i don't see men and women as equals. or that they shouldn't be.

 

[themadhair]

I’ll just leave these quotes here:

i live in ozz, and in shops there are female attendants at the cashier, but clothes and food are a must, what can i do?

Darn, I guess you'll just have to treat women as equals.

don't try and get to smart wise guy.

i'd try to keep my brains inside my head if i were you.

What's wrong with showing respect and support for the rights and equality of women?

where did i say that there is something wrong with supporting womens rights and equality? no one is speaking of that.

but i know people like you very well, too bad you were young when hitler was around, his way of thinking and you racist/cultural hatred would have been undefeatable.

my statement about having to go to the shops was me saying that i have come to live here, so i can't complain that there are women at the cashier, it is a must for me to get food, so i have to go and buy it, no matter if the cashier is a male or a female.

i did say that i do not agree to what the man had done, about complaining to his neighbour, and my statement was very clear, that i had to go to the shops even though i have to speak to a female at the cashier.

Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when Westerners bare their women?
<snip>
Do you have any idea how us Muslims feel when you support sexual deviance?

But the keyword is CHOOSE. If the burka is being forced on a woman - and in a lot of cases it is - then there is no choice.

yes that is the keyword, cos i don't think wester women have a right in that word.

they are forced into nudity. to please men. why don't westen men dress to please women? cos they are in controll of themself, it is a shame that none of you see this.

read the link maximus

A Commentary on The Quran, Sura 4 Verse 34 by Dr. Ahmad Shafaat

yes people do use religion as a get away for their bed doings, but don't pin it on islam, one mans doins isn't my doing or that of islam.

This, however, describes an ideal situation: a strong loving husband taking full care of the wife and the wife giving him her faithful love, obedience and support.
….
When there is no ill-will on the part of the wife towards the husband and he finds her behaviour hard to live with, he can, of course, divorce her.
….
There is a lot that a husband can achieve by talking to the wife in the right way. But if he fails, he should try separating the wife in bed and take other steps that go with such an action, e.g. avoiding to talk to her. If there had ever been any love between the two, this separation while living together, may help that love to return or come to the forefront. The wife may, as a result, become more willing to change her ways and the husband too may begin to see some of the things in a different light. For this suggestion of separation to work it is clear that the husband should have sufficient control over his sexual urges. For, otherwise he may be driven to end the separation in bed before it had any positive effect on the wife.
…
"Beat them". If even separation fails to work, then it is suggested that men use beating. To this suggestion of the Holy Qur'an there have been two extreme reactions on the part of some Muslims. The first reaction is being apologetic or ashamed of the suggestion. The second is to use it as a justification for indulging in habitual wife battering. Needless to say that both these reactions are wrong. The Quran as we believe is the word of God and is thus every word in it is full of wisdom and love. To be apologetic about any part of the Quran is to lack both knowledge and faith. As for the second response, the suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behaviour that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions.

 

[Gharib]

I’ll just leave these quotes here:

yes that what trolls do.

you left them and what?

 

[Breathe]

I’ll just leave these quotes here:

Here we go again..

 

[themadhair]

you left them and what?

They comprehensively show that your claim of respecting equal rights is false. Hoisted by your own petard as it were.

But what do I know? I'm just a bigot who hates other cultures.

 

[Gharib]

I'm just a bigot who hates other cultures.

i couldn't have said that any better my self, even if my life depended on it.

 

[Panda]

*MOD POST*
Please keep it civil or the staff will steal your beer!
​

 

[YmirGF]

Wow dude, you fell into the trap . This thread really didn't have any other purpose but to start a Flame War. Why can't you see that?

Peace be upon you.

Actually, Ghosty, that was not my intent for creating the thread. I was more intrigued by the sociological clash that the people unwittingly found themselves as outlined in the OP. The whole thing was so unnecessary, really. What was confounding is how a routine comment was deemed as something worthy of complaining about.

For instance, in Canada, I do not have the right to intercede on behalf of another person. In the example above, the husband took it upon himself to "answer" for his wife. At no time did we ever hear how she felt about the whole situation. Clearly, in that relationship there is no equality and the inequality is because of the Muslim gentleman's interpretation of his religion. The weird part is that it wasn't about the wife. It was all about what the husband wanted and the evidence is that we never heard a peep from the wife as to what she wished.


In regards to Eselam's link I cannot fully express my personal revulsion to the methodology for dealing with an errant wife. The entire mindset behind the formula strikes me as being so utterly depraved that it does make one wonder how anyone in their right mind could take Islamic "scholar's" opinion seriously on the matter. The troubling part is that the opinion of the so-called "scholar's" is widely regarded as being correct and I have read several very similar rulings that support the version given here.

 

[Phasmid]

I'm sorry I misinterpreted what you posted, eselam. But I am no racist.

 

[themadhair]

I'm sorry I misinterpreted what you posted, eselam. But I am no racist.

Of course you aren't. Valuing equality between the sexes and being prepared to issue criticism and commentary to that effect makes you a bigot, not a racist.

 

[Phasmid]

Of course you aren't. Valuing equality between the sexes and being prepared to issue criticism and commentary to that effect makes you a bigot, not a racist.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ayani]

i never said i don't see men and women as equals. or that they shouldn't be.

the issue is that a secular, Western view of equality of the sexes, and a conservative, Islamic view are vastly unlike one another, obviously.

in the traditonal Muslim context "equality" might not mean that the sexes are ideally permitted to do the same things socially or religiously, yet that they have equal worth in the eyes of Allah, who has set standards for men and women. equal, yet different.

for a Westerner, the idea of "different yet equal" seems kind of like an oxymoron. why shouldn't a Muslim woman be "free" to do this or that, or to live and express herself as a woman in the secular west would, or be able to do whatever a man does (like run a cash register and wait on both male and female shoppers)?

these are not two worldviews that can really be reconciled.

 

[Father Heathen]

Of course you hold the culture of the white man as superior to others, if the world doesn't submit to his version of freedom, human rights...bla bla bla then they don't belong to the free civilized world (the world of the white man).
I agree with eselam (except on the Hitler part) your racism, hatred and bigotry are disgusting, but I hope viewing others as inferior makes you feel good about yourself.

It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with respecting the equality, rights and liberty of other people. How does this have anything to do with race? Race and culture are too completely different things! The only thing I hate is injustice and those who try to justify it with their culture and religion. I don't give a damn about a person's race, gender, age sexuality or nationality, it's the character and actions of the individuals that matter. I refuse to respect and abide willful ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, bigotry and oppression, but that doesn't make me a racist. If that upsets you then maybe your society should clean itself up.

 

[Father Heathen]

Isn't this a civilized course of action? :sarcastic

Complaining about a friendly greeting is a very unreasonable action.

 

[Father Heathen]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but the reasons I saw for wanting him out of the country were not for specifically for death threats but for being "unCanadian".

No one was wanting him "kicked out", but suggesting that you might not want to immigrate to a country if you cannot integrate into or at least respect the local culture. Do you not think it's a little ridiculous and unreasonable to go to a foreign country and then expect them to conform to your norms instead of the other way around?

 

[Willamena]

In the US, if anyone -- regardless of where they are from -- behaved that way regarding someone saying hello to his wife, he would probably face social sanctions. There's no law saying you cannot be touchy about someone saying hello to your wife. But law or no law, such a person would likely be shunned and talked badly about. So, free country or not, it would not be wise to violate the social expectations of the majority of the people.

Ironically: forcing others to behave with peer pressure is a form of repression, not indicative of a "free country".

 

[Willamena]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but the reasons I saw for wanting him out of the country were not for specifically for death threats but for being "unCanadian".

What's "unCanadian" about that is wanting, suggesting or telling people to leave the country because you don't like their culture.

 

[Vile Atheist]

What's "unCanadian" about that is wanting, suggesting or telling people to leave the country because you don't like their culture.

If you are referring to me, I did not suggest that. I said if he's offended by a culture that politely greets strangers, perhaps this country isn't the best place for him to be. It has nothing to do with whether or not I "like" that culture.

If you aren't referring to me, then disregard this lol.

 

[Willamena]

If you are referring to me, I did not suggest that. I said if he's offended by a culture that politely greets strangers, perhaps this country isn't the best place for him to be. It has nothing to do with whether or not I "like" that culture.

If you aren't referring to me, then disregard this lol.

I wasn't.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Of course you aren't. Valuing equality between the sexes and being prepared to issue criticism and commentary to that effect makes you a bigot, not a racist.

*Applause*