Dating Preferences: Bigotry or a Right?

[Saint Frankenstein]

A trans female is not a biological female, no.

Define "biological female". I'm not technically a "biological female" since I have a male level of testosterone.

 

[Acim]

I find her conversation to generally be more stimulating than most of the conversation here. This thread bares this out quite convincingly.

Then why are you here????????????????

 

[crossfire]

It would seem the argument rests on assuming that a woman with a penis is exactly identical to a woman without a penis, but with a vagina. Whether that's intellectually dishonest, or merely an error in reasoning (i.e. false equivalency), would depend on the intention of the argument's author.

Toss in the added dimension of the woman with the penis not being up-front and honest about her having a penis beforehand.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Toss in the added dimension of the woman with the penis not being up-front and honest about her having a penis beforehand.

So we should all announce what genitals we have within a few minutes of flirting with someone?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I assumed that's what you were trying to say, but you're wrong. Heterosexuality and homosexuality are not reducible down to mere body parts. A cis man in a relationship with or having sex with a trans woman is heterosexual. When I, as a trans man, am in a relationship with or having sex with a cis woman, it's not lesbian. Me having sex with a cis man is not straight.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of meaningless labels, particularly in rhetorical usage. I can accept whomever being attracted to whomever, and they can call it whatever they want. However, it is rather naive and presumptuous to try to hijack the general usage of the word heterosexual in order to demonize most straight men for not being attracted to penises. Not wanting to suck on a penis doesn't make you a bigot if you're a straight man. Maybe, everyone should be okay with accepting straight guys who don't like penis. I know that's asking a lot of some people.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Then why are you here????????????????

The laughs. Time well spent today.

 

[Sunstone]

Refusing to date a whole group of people, all of whom share a common trait, implies intolerance.

Will you tolerate dating people that are like this?
No, I am intolerant of those type of people when it comes to dating. I refuse to date them.

There would seem to be a valid distinction to be made here between being sexually averse to a woman's penis, and being intolerant of the woman herself.

 

[Acim]

So we should all announce what genitals we have within a few minutes of flirting with someone?

Might be that one is not flirting, but the other is interested. Feeling strong attraction. But it is incumbent upon you who are not flirting to announce things about yourself that no one ever does, but suddenly makes sense within context of this discussion. Cause you know, once you feel attraction for someone that can be obliterated by your non-bigoted, completely natural, biological preferences.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Define "biological female". I'm not technically a "biological female" since I have a male level of testosterone.

You're right. Every guy who doesn't want to screw you is a horrible bigot. They're all hypocrites who need to stop using a word like "heterosexual" to describe themselves if they don't want people to think they like penises.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of meaningless labels, particularly in rhetorical usage. I can accept whomever being attracted to whomever, and they can call it whatever they want. However, it is rather naive and presumptuous to try to hijack the general usage of the word heterosexual in order to demonize most straight men for not being attracted to penises. Not wanting to suck on a penis doesn't make you a bigot if you're a straight man. Maybe, everyone should be okay with accepting straight guys who don't like penis. I know that's asking a lot of some people.

No one's "hijacking" anything. If your definition of heterosexuality is based on mere organs, maybe you should think about why you're reducing someone down to mere penises or vaginas. Also, "most" straight men not being attracted to trans women is very, very debatable given how common straight male fetishism of trans women is, the popularity of pornography featuring trans women (the vast majority of which is made for straight cis men) and how prevalent sex work is among trans women, with almost all of their clients being self-identified straight men. In other words, so-called "ladyboys" are very popular with straight guys. Hmm.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You're right. Every guy who doesn't want to screw you is a horrible bigot. They're all hypocrites who need to stop using a word like "heterosexual" to describe themselves if they don't want people to think they like penises.

This has nothing to do with me as a person. I'm female to male, not male to female, FYI.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

No one's "hijacking" anything. If your definition of heterosexuality is based on mere organs, maybe you should think about why you're reducing someone down to mere penises or vaginas. Also, "most" straight men not being attracted to trans women is very, very debatable given how common straight male fetishism of trans women is, the popularity of pornography featuring trans women (the vast majority of which is made for straight cis men) and how prevalent sex work is among trans women, with almost all of their clients being self-identified straight men. In other words, so-called "ladyboys" are very popular with straight guys. Hmm.

People lying about their preference doesn't change the meaning.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

This has nothing to do with me as a person. I'm female to male, not male to female, FYI.

It actually has nothing to do with any person, in reality. It's tongue-in-cheek to point out the ridiculousness.

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe, everyone should be okay with accepting straight guys who don't like penis.

Extremist!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Might be that one is not flirting, but the other is interested. Feeling strong attraction. But it is incumbent upon you who are not flirting to announce things about yourself that no one ever does, but suddenly makes sense within context of this discussion. Cause you know, once you feel attraction for someone that can be obliterated by your non-bigoted, completely natural, biological preferences.

Yeah, and when the person who is attracted to her finds out that she has a penis, she's a "liar", a "trap" and it's understandable if the other person gets angry at her and maybe even loses their cool and assaults and/or murders her. Hmm.

 

[Acim]

Not wanting to suck on a penis doesn't make you a bigot if you're a straight man. Maybe, everyone should be okay with accepting straight guys who don't like penis. I know that's asking a lot of some people.

So, if on a first (or tenth) date, the straight woman who doesn't want to suck on a straight guys penis, she must not be heterosexual. This is what straight people do on dates, all the time. Not wanting to do it, would mean that you are plausibly not heterosexual. But dating someone, and kissing them would be so vastly different, I'm guessing, between person that self identifies as female and the other that self identifies as male, and both consider themselves heterosexual, but due to biology are perhaps not. All because of the kiss they shared. Kissing is so rare on dates, compared to sucking on penises, I'm not sure why I bring it up. Sorry for being outside the norms.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yeah, and when the person who is attracted to her finds out that she has a penis, she's a "liar", a "trap" and it's understandable if the other person gets angry at her and maybe even loses their cool and assaults and/or murders her. Hmm.

That's an odd view.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So, if on a first (or tenth) date, the straight woman who doesn't want to suck on a straight guys penis, she must not be heterosexual. This is what straight people do on dates, all the time. Not wanting to do it, would mean that you are plausibly not heterosexual. But dating someone, and kissing them would be so vastly different, I'm guessing, between person that self identifies as female and the other that self identifies as male, and both consider themselves heterosexual, but due to biology are perhaps not. All because of the kiss they shared. Kissing is so rare on dates, compared to sucking on penises, I'm not sure why I bring it up. Sorry for being outside the norms.

How cogent.

 

[crossfire]

So we should all announce what genitals we have within a few minutes of flirting with someone?

If you are a pre-op, and are discussing having sex, then the honest thing to do would be honest about it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

People lying about their preference doesn't change the meaning.

Sorry, but trans women aren't lying about being women. It's not gay or bisexual for a straight man to be intimate with a trans woman.