Death penalty: Are you for or against it?

[psychoslice]

That is a remarkable level of compassion. Why not take it a step further and release them from life? When we are confronted with people who through choice, or programming cannot function without acting out in destructive ways regarding human life in such low regard that they will take it for personal fantasy, we must act. Now whether that is to imprison for life such an unfortunate person or to kill such a person is what we are debating. From a pragmatic standpoint, why use resources to imprison for life, if killing could be cheaper? From a fairness standpoint, why give value to a life that seeks to devalue all other human life?

From an ethical standpoint, if human life is to have an elevated status among our values, on what basis do we justify such status? If we find a life wherein these justifications are absent, should we still value such a life?

Finally, I would rather be dead than be programmed in such a fashion as the people we are discussing? How about you?

Yes I see what you are saying, but I am not a psychopath and so I don't know if I would want to die or not. Also should we kill the ones who are born with a disposition to sever mental disorders, such as down's syndrome or something simular ?, aren't they a burden to society and the tax payer ? , this is what Hitler wanted to do.

 

[Curious George]

There's a difference between killing livestock in a quick and humane way and brutally torturing to death companion animals because it gets you off (or because some sick freak who gets off on it paid you money to make the video for them). They experience the same level of pain and suffering as we can. It's morally equivalent to doing it to a small child, truth be told.

And you apparently didn't read the article because they did a lot more than stomp on them.

It is not morally equivalent to doing it to a small child. We value small children much more than small animals. The day someone comes rushing from a fire and says "well I saw a kitten and a little girl, I unfortunately knew I could only save one, so I grabbed Mr. Tinkers here and made my way down the fire escape," is the day where we can agree that they are valued the same.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not really interested in talking to you at all, to be honest.

Because we disagree? I just dont care for insults. If youd like to talk nicely, than thats cool. I am human. I dont understand the problem behind it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is not morally equivalent to doing it to a small child. We value small children much more than small animals. The day someone comes rushing from a fire and says "well I saw a kitten and a little girl, I unfortunately knew I could only save one, so I grabbed Mr. Tinkers here and made my way down the fire escape," is the day where we can agree that they are valued the same.

Okay, that was just dumb. You personally may value a small child more than an animal, but the barrage of infuriated people who call for the death of the perpetrators in the comments sections of news articles dealing with extreme animal cruelty say otherwise. You seem to be in the minority, when you say that such people don't deserve death. I know that if I knew of someone in my area doing that to animals, I'd have no problems offing them myself and neither would a ton of other people. Maybe it's because I've been a pet owner all my life.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Because we disagree? I just dont care for insults. If youd like to talk nicely, than thats cool. I am human. I dont understand the problem behind it.

No, because you're just rambling and don't make much sense. I don't have the patience to decipher what you're trying to say and you keep repeating yourself over and over. I get it: you're opposed to the death penalty. No point in continuing to talk to you about it.

 

[Curious George]

Yes I see what you are saying, but I am not a psychopath and so I don't know if I would want to die or not. Also should we kill the ones who are born with a disposition to sever mental disorders, such as down's syndrome or something simular ?, aren't they a burden to society and the tax payer ? , this is what Hitler wanted to do.

I would not rather be dead than have down's. I might rather be dead than something extremely painful like tsachs. I don't know what the right thing is to do when dealing with something like tsachs. But, if you have any friends or family with downs then you certainly know the reasons to value life are in these people as well.

 

[columbus]

The difference between humane vs. Inhumane does not warrant a death penalty. The

I agree that almost nothing warrants the death penalty here in the first world.
But there is a huge difference between killing for need, as humanely as possible, and killing specifically for the agony. Someone who can enjoy that is dangerous to all of us, not just the animals.
That includes people who watch the videos.
Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, because you're just rambling and don't make much sense. I don't have the patience to decipher what you're trying to say and you keep repeating yourself over and over. I get it: you're opposed to the death penalty. No point in continuing to talk to you about it.

I dont understand your position (and anyone else who does not value all life) What is wrong with trying to understand it without keep defending myself cause of insults?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes I see what you are saying, but I am not a psychopath and so I don't know if I would want to die or not. Also should we kill the ones who are born with a disposition to sever mental disorders, such as down's syndrome or something simular ?, aren't they a burden to society and the tax payer ? , this is what Hitler wanted to do.

Why are we bringing people with Downs into this? They're not hurting anyone and they don't necessarily suffer, either. They can have pretty normal lives, with help and understanding.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I dont understand your position (and anyone else who does not value all life) What is wrong with trying to understand it without keep defending myself cause of insults?

Well, I'm at a loss at what to tell you in order to help you to understand.

 

[Curious George]

Okay, that was just dumb. You personally may value a small child more than an animal, but the barrage of infuriated people who call for the death of the perpetrators in the comments sections of news articles dealing with extreme animal cruelty say otherwise. You seem to be in the minority, when you say that such people don't deserve death.

I don't mind being in the minority. Do you really think people in general value a kitten as the same as a little kid (not a goat)? That is preposterous. Please explain why.

Killing a kitten will never be the same as killing a child.

That people wish death on people who do horrible things is not uncommon. What is uncommon is having a rational argument for why horrible things reasonably merit death. Wanting the death penalty for things we find repulsive, is an emotional reaction. We cannot let any system be guided solely by emotional reactions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, I'm at a loss at what to tell you in order to help you to understand.

I dont know. Thats okay. I justbget defensive when I am insulted. I have to write two sentence posts so people understand what Im saying even though they disagree.

It gets fustrating.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't mind being in the minority. Do you really think people in general value a kitten as the same as a little kid (not a goat)? That is preposterous. Please explain why.

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't support a person who tortures that kitten to death being killed. People really tend to love dogs, cats, rabbits, etc.

Killing a kitten will never be the same as killing a child.

To you. Maybe you haven't been around dogs and cats that much. I don't know.

That people wish death on people who do horrible things is not uncommon. What is uncommon is having a rational argument for why horrible things reasonably merit death. Wanting the death penalty for things we find repulsive, is an emotional reaction. We cannot let any system be guided solely by emotional reactions.

Both sides are influenced by emotional reactions. It's inescapable, when it comes to topics like these. Unless you're some sort of robot.

 

[psychoslice]

I would not rather be dead than have down's. I might rather be dead than something extremely painful like tsachs. I don't know what the right thing is to do when dealing with something like tsachs. But, if you have any friends or family with downs then you certainly know the reasons to value life are in these people as well.

Yes and its no different with the psychopath, they have family members who probably loves them just as much as a parent loving a down's, your seeing it all in your own opinion, your not seeing the whole picture, your not seeing how others might suffer, that being the close members of their family, and also their own life, why do you or I have the power to kill someone just because we don't like them, there are a lot of people who society would do better without, but that's life, and it will always be like that.

 

[Curious George]

I agree that almost nothing warrants the death penalty here in the first world.
But there is a huge difference between killing for need, as humanely as possible, and killing specifically for the agony. Someone who can enjoy that is dangerous to all of us, not just the animals.
That includes people who watch the videos.
Tom

Yes there is a huge difference. That is why if you torture animals you can pay fines and spend sizeable amounts of time in prison.

But jumping from that's okay to the death penalty seems a little much.

I am not saying one doesn't justify punishment. I am saying that if you think there is a rationale to justify the heaviest penalty we have, then I would love to hear it.

Danger to us? How so? We are tried for crimes committed, not fantasized dangers. We say someone is a danger to society for what they have done, not what else they might do. Thus, the only danger to society these people can rationally be said to pose is that they will either maim more small animals or watch more videos of such.

 

[psychoslice]

Why are we bringing people with Downs into this? They're not hurting anyone and they don't necessarily suffer, either. They can have pretty normal lives, with help and understanding.

Its was just an ensample, don't take it personal, this is not a thread for you if you take things too personal.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Its was just an ensample, don't take it personal, this is not a thread for you if you take things too personal.

I'm not taking it personally. I don't have Downs or know anyone with it. I was just asking.

 

[Curious George]

Yes and its no different with the psychopath, they have family members who probably loves them just as much as a parent loving a down's, your seeing it all in your own opinion, your not seeing the whole picture, your not seeing how others might suffer, that being the close members of their family, and also their own life, why do you or I have the power to kill someone just because we don't like them, there are a lot of people who society would do better without, but that's life, and it will always be like that.

It is not just a matter of being better without. I am not advocating a balancing test. I am suggesting that criminals should be allowed to choose death, and in the most extreme scenarios then we may impose death.

You point out family of the criminal and how a criminals death may cause suffering. But is it not possible that a criminals life also causes suffering. Should we not choose the path of least suffering?

 

[psychoslice]

I'm not taking it personally. I don't have Downs or know anyone with it. I was just asking.

Sorry then, just don't want to upset you, you sensitive little thing. cuddle cuddle.

 

[columbus]

Wanting the death penalty for things we find repulsive, is an emotional reaction. We cannot let any system be guided solely by emotional reactions.

This sums up why I oppose the death penalty in general. Read back through this thread and you will see no reason put forth for support other than emotions.
Tom