Death penalty: Are you for or against it?

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't believe I said sympathy, but if you can't kill an animal, you probably shouldn't hunt.


That you don't like being of the same species bears nothing on the truth of the matter.

But pretending we are "removing demons" to justify killing offers little rational to not kill whatever people deem is a demon.

I think you're perhaps reading a bit much into my use of that term.

 

[Curious George]

Google is your friend.


I'd rather not be classified as a member of the same species as those types. They're not human, to me. If you don't like that, I really couldn't care less. As if they deserve sympathy.

Death penalty for crush videos huh? Seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Curious George]

I think you're perhaps reading a bit much into my use of that term.

Perhaps. I think it is the notion righteous purification that causes me pause.

 

[Jainarayan]

Life without chance of parole is simply sweeping the killer under the rug and getting him out of sight and still being able to feel morally upright because he gets to live. There's that limousine liberal thinking again. That's hypocrisy, because I'll bet not one person who puts so much value on the life of a convicted murderer would so much as write a pen pal letter.

 

[suncowiam]

Would you kill someone to keep them from killing you or a loved one?

Of course I would. No hesitation and...

I'm a liberal but I hate PC...

 

[Curious George]

Of course I would. No hesitation and...

I'm a liberal but I hate PC...

How is this related to pc?

 

[suncowiam]

How is this related to pc?

Its not, imo... But read the chain of comments and there's a suggestion that it could be.

 

[psychoslice]

There's different types of murder. Some have more social causes and others, such as the most brutal types of murder and serial murder, are because the person has a type of Anti-Social Personality Disorder as well as being a pathological sadist (in other words, they're what we'd call a murderous psychopath). In the latter case, there really isn't a social cause to it and the person is just literally screwed in the head and you can't really rehabilitate them.

For example, a teenager who is drawn into a street gang and does a drive-by can be rehabilitated if they cooperate with it. But a serial killer, a sexual sadist who gets off on torture or a serial rapist? No, you can't really rehabilitate those types.

these unfortunate people did not ask to be born the way the are, we are all under programming, and conditioning, if you or I was born with this trait, we would probably be doing the same thing, so just be glade that you weren't born as such.

 

[Curious George]

Its not, imo... But read the chain of comments and there's a suggestion that it could be.

I read the chain, but was tripped up by your statement. Previous posters were using cliche terms to try to categorize people who didn't agree with them, I thought you were challenging the idea that "pc" or "liberal" somehow equates to not protecting family or taking responsibility.

 

[columbus]

Death penalty for crush videos huh? Seems ridiculous to me.

I don't spend much time wallowing in horrific crimes. So I
am not absolutely sure what a "crush video" is. But I think I get it.
If it is what is think it is, video of the torture killing of sentient animals like dogs. I am fundamentally opposed to CP. But if I weren't I'd be OK with offing those people too. Largely because I would consider them a grave danger to the rest of us, aside from being morally reprehensible.
Doesn't change my pro life beliefs. But doing that to such a creature is abominable, little short of murder.
Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Death penalty for crush videos huh? Seems ridiculous to me.

You really don't know what they did, do you?

Here: http://www.houstonpress.com/news/op...l-crushing-videos-violate-free-speech-6598196

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

these unfortunate people did not ask to be born the way the are, we are all under programming, and conditioning, if you or I was born with this trait, we would probably be doing the same thing, so just be glade that you weren't born as such.

Er, depression, attempting suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction, paraphilias, etc. all run in my family. I have severe depression and have been very suicidal many times but I'm not an alcoholic or drug addict. Biology isn't destiny. We have a choice and we can control ourselves or choose to get help.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't spend much time wallowing in horrific crimes. So I
am not absolutely sure what a "crush video" is. But I think I get it.
If it is what is think it is, video of the torture killing of sentient animals like dogs. I am fundamentally opposed to CP. But if I weren't I'd be OK with offing those people too. Largely because I would consider them a grave danger to the rest of us, aside from being morally reprehensible.
Doesn't change my pro life beliefs. But doing that to such a creature is abominable, little short of murder.
Tom

Yeah, crush videos are basically snuff films involving animals.

"For those who do not realize, animal crush video does indeed, exist. The videos generally feature, but do not limit themselves to, small live animals, such as kittens, puppies, mice and bunnies being slowly tortured in the most horrific ways imaginable.
They are burned alive, cut with pruning sheers, nailed to the floor, skinned alive, beaten, stabbed and most often, they have their limbs crushed and broken, just to invoke more screams of agony."
http://www.stopcrush.org/?page_id=2

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Have fun in la-la land. If you actually worked in a prison, you wouldn't be spouting such delusional silliness. You wouldn't last long with what naive attitude, anyway.

First. You dont know what I have gone through when it comes to killers, rapests, child melesters, theifs, etc. I communicate with them on a daily basis. I dont have to study it. I was a part of it.

And.

I still hold life is life. I learned to talk to these people without my needing to see a therapist cause I have been tramatized before. I had to change my perspective on mental health because a lot of people I am arou d a few I live with Also have mental disorders.

Dont insult my intelligence. I value life. Not everyone does. I find that odd in the most nicest way I can say it. I would never kill the rapist, murderer (yes, murderer), and child melester i met. When I found out about the place I was in, I left immediately. I never call anyone like that demons. That is horrible from any person.

Life is life. I would not want someone to killnme based on my actions knowing that I can change my own life. Killing is not a punishment like going to jail. Its permenant.

God, the Law, forcex source, universe, nature,physics, whatever has the final say on the consequence of our actions in regards to our right to live.

No law. No study. No experience will tell me otherwise.

Why cant anyone "want" to understand where I come from, I dont know. I dislike insults.

Talk civilized.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

First. You dont know what I have gone through when it comes to killers, rapests, child melesters, theifs, etc. I communicate with them on a daily basis. I dont have to study it. I was a part of it.

And.

I still hold life is life. I learned to talk to these people without my needing to see a therapist cause I have been tramatized before. I had to change my perspective on mental health because a lot of people I am arou d a few I live with Also have mental disorders.

Dont insult my intelligence. I value life. Not everyone does. I find that odd in the most nicest way I can say it. I would never kill the rapist, murderer (yes, murderer), and child melester i met. When I found out about the place I was in, I left immediately. I never call anyone like that demons. That is horrible from any person.

Life is life. I would not want someone to killnme based on my actions knowing that I can change my own life. Killing is not a punishment like going to jail. Its permenant.

God, the Law, forcex source, universe, nature,physics, whatever has the final say on the consequence of our actions in regards to our right to live.

No law. No study. No experience will tell me otherwise.

Why cant anyone "want" to understand where I come from, I dont know. I dislike insults.

Talk civilized.

I'm not really interested in talking to you at all, to be honest.

 

[Curious George]

these unfortunate people did not ask to be born the way the are, we are all under programming, and conditioning, if you or I was born with this trait, we would probably be doing the same thing, so just be glade that you weren't born as such.

That is a remarkable level of compassion. Why not take it a step further and release them from life? When we are confronted with people who through choice, or programming cannot function without acting out in destructive ways regarding human life in such low regard that they will take it for personal fantasy, we must act. Now whether that is to imprison for life such an unfortunate person or to kill such a person is what we are debating. From a pragmatic standpoint, why use resources to imprison for life, if killing could be cheaper? From a fairness standpoint, why give value to a life that seeks to devalue all other human life?

From an ethical standpoint, if human life is to have an elevated status among our values, on what basis do we justify such status? If we find a life wherein these justifications are absent, should we still value such a life?

Finally, I would rather be dead than be programmed in such a fashion as the people we are discussing? How about you?

 

[Curious George]

You really don't know what they did, do you?

Here: http://www.houstonpress.com/news/op...l-crushing-videos-violate-free-speech-6598196

I googled them. Crush videos are videos where people step or smash in small animals heads (usually), so other people can watch, and potentially get off on it. Pretty depraved, yes. But a non-human life is not equal to that of a human. How is it rational to allow people to kill animals with no penalty and then require death for killing animals in an inhumane way. The difference between humane vs. Inhumane does not warrant a death penalty. The act of killing an animal is not the same as killing a human. Nor should the heaviest penalty in our penal system be levied against anyone who simply killed an animal.

 

[psychoslice]

There's different types of murder. Some have more social causes and others, such as the most brutal types of murder and serial murder, are because the person has a type of Anti-Social Personality Disorder as well as being a pathological sadist (in other words, they're what we'd call a murderous psychopath). In the latter case, there really isn't a social cause to it and the person is just literally screwed in the head and you can't really rehabilitate them.

For example, a teenager who is drawn into a street gang and does a drive-by can be rehabilitated if they cooperate with it. But a serial killer, a sexual sadist who gets off on torture or a serial rapist? No, you can't really rehabilitate those types.

Yes I agree that there are some that you cannot rehabilitate , but is that really an excuse to kill them, like you or I could have been born with that trait, just like you see little children, they all have their own individual traits that they were born with. As you know its so complicated, there is all sorts of reasons these people because of their trait, and conditioning from their parents or whoever, end up doing what they do. Many are born with a disposition of being a psychopath, but don't become a murderer, these people can become, say, a manager somewhere, and treat their staff in a horrible way, they seem to get satisfaction from seeing others hurt, because they themselves cannot feel emotion towards others. If these same people, that is the majority of psychopaths were brought up by a cruel parent, then these who never would have murdered anyone, probably would grow up murdering or hurting people badly, so there is a lot involved. But again these people never asked to be born into a mind body organism that has the traits of a psychopath, lets just be glad we aren't one of these unfortunate people.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I googled them. Crush videos are videos where people step or smash in small animals heads (usually), so other people can watch, and potentially get off on it. Pretty depraved, yes. But a non-human life is not equal to that of a human. How is it rational to allow people to kill animals with no penalty and then require death for killing animals in an inhumane way. The difference between humane vs. Inhumane does not warrant a death penalty. The act of killing an animal is not the same as killing a human. Nor should the heaviest penalty in our penal system be levied against anyone who simply killed an animal.

There's a difference between killing livestock in a quick and humane way and brutally torturing to death companion animals because it gets you off (or because some sick freak who gets off on it paid you money to make the video for them). They experience the same level of pain and suffering as we can. It's morally equivalent to doing it to a small child, truth be told.

And you apparently didn't read the article because they did a lot more than stomp on them (which is sickening enough). It was so horrific that the judge at the hearing had to stop the reading of the court documents describing what they did to a puppy.

 

[Curious George]

I don't spend much time wallowing in horrific crimes. So I
am not absolutely sure what a "crush video" is. But I think I get it.
If it is what is think it is, video of the torture killing of sentient animals like dogs. I am fundamentally opposed to CP. But if I weren't I'd be OK with offing those people too. Largely because I would consider them a grave danger to the rest of us, aside from being morally reprehensible.
Doesn't change my pro life beliefs. But doing that to such a creature is abominable, little short of murder.
Tom

Sounds like an emotional reaction. I agree it is shocking, I agree it is depraved...But what rational argument do you have for capital punishment of these people.