Debate a Muslim

[leroy]

Any evidence there is shows "appear to have died". In the East, yogis can stop their breath etc. This is the basis for the Quran's assertion that Jesus appeared to have died but did not really die.

But the evidence that he did die is overwhelming , … it´s hard to believe that not even his brother james noticed that he didn’t die.

 

[epronovost]

Lol. What kind of nonsense is that? Where did you learn that from?

Here's for a little introduction on modern-day slavery.

Nearly 36 mln people are slaves, Qatar in focus: global index

Here's how the 2022 World Cup in Qatar has exploded their number of workers suffering from modern slavery.

Qatar World Cup of Shame

Here is some basic information about modern day slavery. I suggest you inform yourself on the subject. It's surprising and a bit depressing to know that despite the fact all countries in the world except North Korea have laws to ban at least some forms of slavery (child and forced marriage are considered a form of slavery btw as are child soldiers and child prostitutes) there are still a estimated 40 million slaves worldwide most of them in India, South East Asia and the Middle East.

Highlights | Global Slavery Index

 

[Shakeel]

That is strictly true but in the sense of principles ISIS follows Salafi doctrine.

Does ISIS Really Follow the Salafi Version of Islamic Law and Theology?

For its part, ISIS does draw heavily on Salafi principles and texts. A majority of its commentaries are works by Wahhabi authors -- and continue to be a focus of these activities, with a clear direct targeting of today's Saudi religious establishment for what ISIS sees as the latter's betrayal of Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's legacy. Moreover, its textbooks on creed ('aqida) include chapters on "nationalism," "patriotism," "democracy" -- consistent with the kinds of writings of earlier Salafi authors who deemed these political concepts as unnecessary divisions of the Muslim community and as signs of unbelief. And the group does not recognize the Islamic schools of law in its textbooks on jurisprudence, referring exclusively to hadith reports, Qur'anic verses and statements of select scholars who share its views -- all consistent with Salafi epistemology.[12]

But the project of at least rhetorically justifying, if not working towards the realization of, a state-caliphate project seems to have cornered the self-proclaimed caliphate into an intellectually awkward spot, precisely because Salafis have not traditionally created the blueprint for such initiatives. One can even go so far as to say that, aside from law and creed, there really is no one uniquely Salafi approach to subjects that one might expect on a school curriculum (and which ISIS includes in theirs) -- subjects like literature, geography, mathematics, physics and biology.

All of these subjects -- including the very concept of a caliphate -- have no doctrinal basis in the Salafi worldview for the simple reason that they have not been priorities for Salafi groups.

Except that they don't.

I don't know what that quote has to do with it. It doesn't really say anything, but then I wouldn't expect something called a Washington institute to know anything about it.

 

[Link]

But the evidence that he did die is overwhelming , … it´s hard to believe that not even his brother james noticed that he didn’t die.

Evidence is subjective a lot of people don't believe Jesus (a) existed "based on evidence" from their view. At the end, belief in guidance from God needs belief in the unseen. The heart has to connect to what is beyond five senses and the Prophets (s) and who they are will become easy in that case. It's not about Academic history to believe in miracles performed at this point.

 

[firedragon]

Here's for a little introduction on modern-day slavery.

Nearly 36 mln people are slaves, Qatar in focus: global index

Here's how the 2022 World Cup in Qatar has exploded their number of workers suffering from modern slavery.

Qatar World Cup of Shame

Here is some basic information about modern day slavery. I suggest you inform yourself on the subject. It's surprising and a bit depressing to know that despite the fact all countries in the world except North Korea have laws to ban at least some forms of slavery (child and forced marriage are considered a form of slavery btw as are child soldiers and child prostitutes) there are still a estimated 40 million slaves worldwide most of them in India, South East Asia and the Middle East.

Highlights | Global Slavery Index

Wheres the data on UAE? Just out of curiosity.

Also, please quote the data on the government not letting workers leave keeping their passports.

 

[sun rise]

Christians called themselves Abdullah which means servants of Allah. Thats before Muhammed.

Outside of the language difference between "God" and "Allah", to me this is the same thing - "Servant of God" in English. "Christian" as a religion came later.

My problem with Halaal slaughtering is that not only is it a way for Muslims to force companies to employ according to religion, but they force companies to sell products identified by religion.

You necessarily have to have the same objection to Kosher.

 

[leroy]

Evidence is subjective a lot of people don't believe Jesus (a) existed "based on evidence" from their view. At the end, belief in guidance from God needs belief in the unseen. The heart has to connect to what is beyond five senses and the Prophets (s) and who they are will become easy in that case. It's not about Academic history to believe in miracles performed at this point.

But I am not even talking about miracles.

All I am saying is that weather if Jesus died in the cross or not is an important difference between Islam and Christianity.

This can be tested using the best historical evidence that we have available and see who is more likely to be correct.

 

[firedragon]

Outside of the language difference between "God" and "Allah", to me this is the same thing - "Servant of God" in English. "Christian" as a religion came later.

Of course.

 

[sun rise]

Nope, the Quran say they are virgins, untouched by men with nice breasts.
Gee pal... did you ever read the quran?

To understand the Quran, you necessarily have to read it in the original language to avoid problems in translation as was discussed earlier in this thread.

This is a classic example of that problem. And why distrust of any single translation or even multiple translations is needed.

Meaning of the term kawa'ib
Several translators—like Arberry, Palmer, Rodwell and Sale—have translated the noun ka'ib in Quran 78:33 as "with swelling breasts".[35] Ibn Kathir, in his tafsir, writes that the word has been interpreted to refer to "fully developed" or "round breasts ... they meant by this that the breasts of these girls will be fully rounded and not sagging, because they will be virgins."[36] Similarly, the authoritative Arabic-English Lexicon of Edward William Lane defines the word ka'ib as "A girl whose breasts are beginning to swell, or become prominent, or protuberant or having swelling, prominent, or protuberant, breasts."[37]

However, M. A. S. Abdel Haleem and others point out that the description here refers in classical usage to the young age rather than emphasizing the women's physical features.[38][39]

Others, such as Abdullah Yusuf Ali, translate ka'ib as "companions",[40] with Muhammad Asad interpreting the term as being allegorical.[41]

Houri - Wikipedia

 

[sun rise]

But the evidence that he did die is overwhelming , … it´s hard to believe that not even his brother james noticed that he didn’t die.

Even in modern times, there are a fair number of cases where someone who appeared to be dead woke up in the morgue.

This is just one of many such reports Why waking up in a morgue isn’t quite as unusual as you’d think | Carla Valentine

 

[epronovost]

Also, please quote the data on the government not letting workers leave keeping their passports.

Ever watched the documentary Slave in Dubai?

Here is a series of of recommendation from the NGO Human Rights Watch to the government of the UAE on the subject of slavery within its territory.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/uae1106/2.htm#_Toc149111149

Here is a more general article on the sate of human rights in the country. It does touch a bit on the rights of workers, but also on freedom of speech, women's rights, LGBTQ rights and cases of "disappearance" and torture by the police.

Human rights in Dubai - Wikipedia

PS: on one of the other kinks I provided you (he general resources on modern slavery) you could simply type UAE in the search bar or consult one of the maps.

 

[leroy]

Even in modern times, there are a fair number of cases where someone who appeared to be dead woke up in the morgue.

This is just one of many such reports Why waking up in a morgue isn’t quite as unusual as you’d think | Carla Valentine

In which case nobody would have call it a miracle.
People woudl have said……….oh Jesus survived the cross, they woudl have not call it a resurrection.-

 

[epronovost]

In which case nobody would have call it a miracle.
People woudl have said……….oh Jesus survived the cross, they woudl have not call it a resurrection.-

Maybe, maybe not. In medicine, at the time, a person was considered dead when it expired its last breath. If you reanimate a person after their last breath, you have resuscitated them and if they did it spontaneously, it's a resurrection.

 

[Rival]

PS: on one of the other kinks I provided you

Lol.

 

[epronovost]

Lol.

I'm not editing it. This is the hill I will die on.

 

[Shakeel]

In which case nobody would have call it a miracle.
People woudl have said……….oh Jesus survived the cross, they woudl have not call it a resurrection.-

Well Jesus (peace be upon him) did repeat again and again "I'm alive", instead of, "I have been resurrected".

If you heard a friend of yours had died and three days later he knocks on your door, what is your first thought: that he hadn't died after all or that he was resurrected? What if he also said, "I'm alive," What would you think then?

 

[leroy]

Maybe, maybe not. In medicine, at the time, a person was considered dead when it expired its last breath. If you reanimate a person after their last breath, you have resuscitated them and if they did it spontaneously, it's a resurrection.

Sure but not the kind of “resurrection” that would impress anyone.

 

[Shakeel]

writes that the word has been interpreted to refer to "fully developed" or "round breasts ... they meant by this that the breasts of these girls will be fully rounded and not sagging, because they will be virgins."[36]

First time I hear virginity has a connection with the sagging of breasts. I would think that refers to young age and overall perfection, with which comes virginity also. Can't find the citation from the given source though.

 

[danieldemol]

Did @Ghazaly flee the debate already?

 

[Rival]

Did @Ghazaly flee the debate already?

I wouldn't blame him; look at the state of it