Debate a Muslim

[Aupmanyav]

Hi Ghazaly, what is your proof for existence of this entity, Allah?
If you have discussed it in the topic, kindly give me the link.

@Ghazaly , you have not answered my question. Just a reminder.

 

[firedragon]

Anyhow, now that you admitted defeat, why dont you open a thread where the so called "Atrocities" you copy and paste everytime, can be discussed?
If you dont, well, it is a demonstration that you done have the courrage to even adress me with your silly argument.

Lets see, perhaps we now have a Muslim that can debate me on the Biblical problematic verses.
Perhaps I should prepare your baptism?

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

 

[firedragon]

But I think this is between @SA Huguenot and @firedragon . I’m just teasing them since that conversation doesn’t seem to be working out haha.

There are some who deserve good conversation, even if we disagree.

There are some who dont deserve anything but some random cut and pastes.

Anyway, I told you that you look very young. Aup just told you so. Whats your secret? Its magic isn't it?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...
Nope. Its your imagination. Maybe you think others are just like you. I dont think any of these teachings have much of authenticity. So am only quoting the text which you have claimed were what the Buddha said.
...

Now it makes sense.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No. There is no link. Mate. Just because you are used to "links" and quick googling, dont think others are just lying.

You put your own text, which was a misrepresentation.
Nope. Its your imagination. Maybe you think others are just like you. I dont think any of these teachings have much of authenticity. So am only quoting the text which you have claimed were what the Buddha said.

Very good. I agree.

What is contested about those "lines"? Tell me what "Atha" means.

You post an image one day, and the next day you say you do not know where it is posted from.
I have given you four links, three from well-known Buddhist monks and one from Suttacentral which support what I said.Why do you say that it is a mirepresentation?
I have already said that whether Buddha said it or some Buddhist monk said it, it is immatrial. What is said is of value and that is why I accept it.
Have you applied the same measure to what Mohammad claimed and said?

atha (Sanskrit): now, what, how else (Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit"
atha (Pali): The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary

I do not know why you are asking for translation of 'atha', the word in the Sutta is 'attanāva' which is related to 'atta', roughly substantiality.

 

[firedragon]

You post an image one day, and the next day you say you do not know where it is posted from.

Its snapshot I took mate. Not downloaded from the internet. How shallow can you get? I told you many many many times.

I have given you four links, three from well-known Buddhist monks and one from Suttacentral which support what I said.Why do you say that it is a mirepresentation?

No. Again, your text is a fallacious, bogus interpretation you made up. Its not there in any of these websites.

Here you got again. I will cut ad paste your own text. Again, below is YOUR TEXT.

"In Simple English, it means to take these things with a grain of salt:
Oral history, Tradition, News sources, Scriptures, Suppositional reasoning, Philosophical dogmatism, Common sense, One's own opinions, Experts, Authorities or one's own teacher

Yeah, Buddhism tells us to have faith in Buddha (Buddham sharanam Gacchami), but do not go by faith, only by analysis."

 

[Mock Turtle]

There are some who deserve good conversation, even if we disagree.

There are some who dont deserve anything but some random cut and pastes.

Anyway, I told you that you look very young. Aup just told you so. Whats your secret? Its magic isn't it?

It's all down to the virgins' blood.

 

[firedragon]

It's all down to the virgins' blood.

MT. You're nasty? Before I get banned or something I shall stop smiling.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Its snapshot I took mate. Not downloaded from the internet. How shallow can you get? I told you many many many times.

No. Again, your text is a fallacious, bogus interpretation you made up. Its not there in any of these websites.
Here you got again. I will cut ad paste your own text. Again, below is YOUR TEXT.

"In Simple English, it means to take these things with a grain of salt:
Oral history, Tradition, News sources, Scriptures, Suppositional reasoning, Philosophical dogmatism, Common sense, One's own opinions, Experts, Authorities or one's own teacher

If you consider Suttacentral and three well-known Buddhist monks to be bogus, then there is nothing that can be discussed.

That is exactly what Buddha said "do not go upon".
Pali original:
Etha tumhe kālāmā mā anussavena,{1} mā param·parāya,{2} mā iti·kirāya,{3} mā piṭaka·sampadānena,{4} mā takka·hetu,{5} mā naya·hetu,{6} mā ākāra·parivitakkena,{7} mā diṭṭhi·nijjhāna·kkhantiyā,{8} mā bhabba·rūpatāya,{9} mā ‘samaṇo no garū’ti.
Translation:
Do not go, you Kālāmas, by what you have heard said, nor by what has been transmitted [by a tradition], nor by the general consensus, nor by what has been handed down in a collection of texts, nor on the basis of logical reasoning, nor on the basis of inference, nor by reflection on appearances, nor by agreement after pondering views, nor by what seems probable, nor by [the thought:] 'The samaṇa is our revered teacher'.
Kesamutti Sutta (AN 3.66)

I do no think buddha-vacana translation is literal. It should have been "Therefore, you Kalamas, do not go by .." rather than "Do not go, you Kālāmas, by ..". Hardly any difference, but we are going literal.
Etha = Therefore (Sanskrit = Etad), Tumhe = You (Sanskrit = Twam, Singular, Yuyam, Plural, Hindi / Urdu = Tum), Kālāmas = Name by which the people of the village were known.
That is why Pali seems so familiar to Hindi / Sanskrit speakers.

 

[firedragon]

If you consider Suttacentral and three well-known Buddhist monks to be bogus,

You are pretending you can't read. Or you just made that up for some audience who you imagine would read and say "Oh my Gosh".

You are bogus. Sutta Central or what ever you wish to turn it into are NOT.

That is exactly what Buddha said "do not go upon".

False

I do no think buddha-vacana translation is literal. It should have been "Therefore, you Kalamas, do not go by .." rather than "Do not go, you Kālāmas, do not go by ..". Hardly any difference, but we are going literal.

Which passage in the text are you talking about?

Etha = Therefore (Sanskrit = Etad)

Wrong.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You are bogus. Sutta Central or what ever you wish to turn it into are NOT.
Which passage in the text are you talking about?
Wrong.

I may be bogus, but tell me if you consider Suttacentral also as bogus? Or Bhikkus. Soma Thera, Thanisasaro and Sujato too as bugus.
When Buddha is supposed to have said: "Etha tumhe kālāmā .."
You are correct here. A small correction to what I wrote. 'Etha' corresponds to 'tad'.
Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit

 

[firedragon]

ell me if you consider Suttacentral also as bogus

Nope

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nope

In that case you should accept "Evaṁ me sutaṁ - Ekam samayam .." (I have heard - at one time ..).

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well. Thats a whole other discussion. Why women are not running things is a completely different topic. Its a good topic, so please do open a new thread on that.

"Look at that post, isn't that funny?"
"Yeah, that guy should watch the news more, haha! Isn't that right, ladies?"

"Totally! Although, we have still some road to travel... remember this?"

 

[firedragon]

In that case you should accept "Evaṁ me sutaṁ - Ekam samayam .

No I won't.

Lol. Strange. For a person who was trying to teach not to accept anything just like that, you were pretty forceful in another person accepting something.

You know what that is? Thats called "Hypocrisy".

Google the meaning.

Cheers.

 

[SA Huguenot]

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 )

And I said if you have the guts to open a thread on any topic, I will answer any question.
Yet, you are so scared of the Bible, you just dont know what to do!

 

[firedragon]

And I said if you have the guts to open a thread on any topic, I will answer any question.
Yet, you are so scared of the Bible, you just dont know what to do!

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

 

[SA Huguenot]

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 )

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 )

Still afraid to speak about the nails in Islams coffin, are you?

 

[firedragon]

Still afraid to speak about the nails in Islams coffin, are you?

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 )

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 )

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 )

 

[Aupmanyav]

Pali original:
Etha tumhe kālāmā mā anussavena,{1} mā param·parāya,{2} mā iti·kirāya,{3} mā piṭaka·sampadānena,{4} mā takka·hetu,{5} mā naya·hetu,{6} mā ākāra·parivitakkena,{7} mā diṭṭhi·nijjhāna·kkhantiyā,{8} mā bhabba·rūpatāya,{9} mā ‘samaṇo no garū’ti.
Translation:
Do not go, you Kālāmas, by what you have heard said, nor by what has been transmitted [by a tradition], nor by the general consensus, nor by what has been handed down in a collection of texts, nor on the basis of logical reasoning, nor on the basis of inference, nor by reflection on appearances, nor by agreement after pondering views, nor by what seems probable, nor by [the thought:] 'The samaṇa is our revered teacher'.
.

Again a correction, might not be important for you, but it is important for correctly understanding 'Kesamutti Sutta'

'Etha' in Pali is equivalent to 'Etah' in Sanskrit. 'Etah' means 'These'.
Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit

So, now the original and the most correct translation:
Etha tumhe kālāmā mā anussavena,{1} mā param·parāya,{2} mā iti·kirāya,{3} mā piṭaka·sampadānena,{4} mā takka·hetu,{5} mā naya·hetu,{6} mā ākāra·parivitakkena,{7} mā diṭṭhi·nijjhāna·kkhantiyā,{8} mā bhabba·rūpatāya,{9} mā ‘samaṇo no garū’ti.
These you Kalamas not by what you have heard said, nor by what has been transmitted by a tradition, nor by the general consensus, nor by what has been handed down in a collection of texts, nor on the basis of logical reasoning, nor on the basis of inference, nor by reflection on appearances, nor by agreement after pondering views, nor by what seems probable, nor by (the thought) 'The samaṇa is our revered teacher'.

Although the meaning remains the same.