Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
You will be judged for your lack of compassion
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Did Jesus really have to die for our sins?
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
A poor assumption on your part.
I have plenty of compassion.
But that may be the part that takes my judgment from me...
and leaves it to Someone else.
Here's the story I have....from several other threads...I quote myself...
"I've heard various takes on the fall of angels...
Let's consider what we should be careful of...if any of this is true.
First a brief description of what an angels are.
In comparison to Man...they are...
Bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced.
Man was created a little less than the angelic.
There is a long standing belief that the fall of the angelic..one third of heaven...was brought on by a division....an argument.
God...having made Man...a little less than the angelic...said to the angels...
"Man is fragile...follow after him and see to it, that he dash not his toes...nor his head."
One third of the angelic said "nay".
"For that Man is less than we are... He should be made to serve us."
There is nothing wrong in that logic.
Man does so unto lesser creatures in every way.
We... chain our dogs, and expect their loyalty...keeping to one master...even though it is their nature to run free in packs, and hunt at will.
We.... saddle and bridle our horses...and expect them to take us wherever we desire...and we break their spirits that they will obey.
We.... cage little birds..that they sing for our pleasure...but the little creature sings for a mate he will never find. There will be no nest...no offspring...and he will die in his solitude.
We...readily kill anything that cannot be made to serve us...any disobedient animal.
A fight broke out. Brother angel against Brother angel.
One third of the angelic fell from grace...losing their positions in heaven.
They lost their place because of an argument...concerning something that looks like you.
They want you dead.
Two thirds of heaven lost their Brothers because of an
argument...concerning something that looks like you.
Do you not bear resemblance to the one third fallen?
Do you not perform unto lesser things...and your fellowman ...as you will?
Are you not concerned..what...or who...will be standing over you...
When you lay down to breath your last breathe?"
On top of that....as you stand up from your dust....
You probably won't know the territory...the language...or the scheme of things.
Are you not at the mercy...of those gone before you?
And if Brothers are willing to draw sword...who shall be in heaven?...
Does compassion rule?
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Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Deepity
Also, compassion only for people you like, isn't compassion
It's ok, you'll learn some day
Also, compassion only for people you like, isn't compassion
It's ok, you'll learn some day
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Shallow twist on your part.....More important...
That I refrain nodding my head to scapegoating...
I cannot claim being washed of my sins by the crucifixion.
I cannot claim He died for me.
However, I do understand the parables, and in keeping His sayings...
I have hope.
If you label 'hope' under the title 'compassion'...I have a shot at absolution.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Good to see you here...I have a question...
The keeping of birds at the temple (new testament)....was for sacrifice?
The life of the creature was offered for atonement?
Is that correct?
arcanum
Active Member
It's hard for modern people to relate to it and understand it but The idea of making a blood sacrifice to God is imbedded in the ancient world. The further removed we get from the time of scarifice the less sense it makes because it's not part of our modern paradigm. So the statement Jesus died for our sins and shed his bled for the remission of sins made a lot more sense in the first few centuries of Christianity. Now people have a hard time understanding this concept because they can't relate to it, it's part of an older paradigm.
Zion4ever
zion4ever
you mentioned NT,Can you read quotation from Leviticus 17 with me :
Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood-- I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. Therefore I say to the Israelites, `None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood. Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, because the life of every creature is its blood.' That is why I have said to the Israelites, `You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.'"
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Wait... YOU are the judgemental one and won't let all in; Im the one who will let all in despite their flaws
But I'm shallow?
arcanum
Active Member
Ok so don't eat blood.... what does that have to do with ritual blood sacrifice which the jews clearly practiced until the temple was destroyed?
Zion4ever
zion4ever
I will reply you , there are many examples in the TANACH where other things besides blood atone for sins :
-IF poor and unable to afford a blood sacrifice, God allows you to use flour which has no blood and is not an animal
-IF not able to offer a sacrifice of flour, forgiveness would only be for the wealthy. God would never exclude humans from obtaining forgiveness on the basis of wealth.
There are five different kinds of sacrifices that were to be offered in the sanctuary
Do you get what I mean ?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
This does not answer my question.
Sacrificing another animal for atonement is the idea.
Was it not a custom to keep birds in the temple for that purpose?
As if sin could be laid unto the creature and killed....the sin dies with it.
Was that not the custom?
Moses made such practice.
He would lay his hand on his followers....then upon a scapegoat....
and then someone would lead the animal into the wilderness to die.
Do you think sin can be removed in this way?
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
That's patently ridiculous, as it assumes God has no control over Heaven. Free will won't exist in Heaven.
You just want to justify your desire for the punishment of others, and you don't care what preposterous ideas are needed to apply.
The proof is in the pudding: A Heathen is far more merciful than you. Bow out now.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
That's patently ridiculous, as it assumes God has no control over Heaven. Free will won't exist in Heaven.
You just want to justify your desire for the punishment of others, and you don't care what preposterous ideas are needed to apply.
The proof is in the pudding: A Heathen is far more merciful than you. Bow out now.
None of the above is correct.
Heaven belongs to God.
If you want to hang around...say as they do, perform accordingly.
What's wrong with that?
God supposedly had His favorite angel thrown out....along with another third of heaven, refusing to go along with the scheme of things.
Control?....yeah lots of it.
The power of creation is held by one Creator.
Stacked deck.
If heaven is a place of peace...there is a discipline involved.
Most belief systems have some notion of discipline.
Discipline is required for entry into heaven.
How much more will be required that we stay there?
Mercy is a discipline, btw.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Sorry, contest already decided 
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
Its ridiculous to assert that God would somehow 'lose control over Heaven' if he were to forgive all the sinners. lol! Oh no! The hooligans in Heaven are rioting! What are they going to do, overturn and set fire to the clouds?
You followers all fail, and miserably I might add, at having your so-called 'discipline' here on Earth. What makes you think you'll have it in Heaven?
Any assertion about Heaven in the past is that there's no sin there. If there's no sin, it's because it's not allowed, not because suddenly you all find this miraculous ability to actually follow orders there, when you never could while alive. You will be robots in Heaven, doing only God's homage and singing hosanna. There is far more impetus to be sin-free here on Earth, because you don't yet have your reward. Once in Heaven, you have it, and the pressure is off, so it makes more logical sense to never sin on Earth. Because that's where the risk lies. An incredibly high and dangerous risk, I might add.
There's just so much empty Orwellian doublethink going on here, oh my.
You followers all fail, and miserably I might add, at having your so-called 'discipline' here on Earth. What makes you think you'll have it in Heaven?
Any assertion about Heaven in the past is that there's no sin there. If there's no sin, it's because it's not allowed, not because suddenly you all find this miraculous ability to actually follow orders there, when you never could while alive. You will be robots in Heaven, doing only God's homage and singing hosanna. There is far more impetus to be sin-free here on Earth, because you don't yet have your reward. Once in Heaven, you have it, and the pressure is off, so it makes more logical sense to never sin on Earth. Because that's where the risk lies. An incredibly high and dangerous risk, I might add.
There's just so much empty Orwellian doublethink going on here, oh my.
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