Did Jesus say he was God???

[anthony55]

Their bible says.....

Mark 10:17-18
As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.


Seems clear and straight forward to me.....

Jesus did not affirm He was not God, He asked the fellow a question and then made a Statement ! So again, Is there a scripture where Jesus says I am not God ?

Its not as though Jesus said, well, first of all I am not God, so why callest thou me good.

Did Jesus say that ? No I dont think so. That to me appears clear and straight forward..

 

[InChrist]

My God, my God,why hast Thou forsaken Me. If Jesus was any part of God, he would not have said this. It's a question he would have already known the answer for.

Jesus cried out and quoted, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" ( Psalm 22:1) to draw attention to the fact that He was fulfilling this prophecy and His messianic mission. Read what verses 11-18 say about the crucifixion written about 600 years before Christ.

Many bulls have surrounded Me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me. They gape at Me with their mouths, like a raging and roaring lion. I am poured out like water and all My bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and My tongue clings to My jaws; You have brought Me to the dust of death. For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.

Jesus bore the weight of all the sins of the world in His body while on the cross. His physical suffering through crucifixion was extreme and His spiritual suffering was far greater. The separation He experienced from His beloved Father whom He had an eternal relationship with was horrific. I believe it was at the moment of this awful separation Jesus cried out in agony from His human condition as He paid the debt for all, thus fulfilling prophecy.

 

[anthony55]

Jesus did affirm that He is God, in Revelation when He made this Statement !

Rev 2:8

And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Now scripture identifies who the The First and the Last is here:

Isa 44:6

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

So, yes Jesus did say He was God [The First and the Last], now let someone show us a scripture where Jesus says He was not God !!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus did affirm that He is God, in Revelation when He made this Statement !
Rev 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Now scripture identifies who the The First and the Last is here:
Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
So, yes Jesus did say He was God [The First and the Last], now let someone show us a scripture where Jesus says He was not God !!

Besides Rev [1v17 B], if you continue reading from Rev [2v8] to Rev [2v18] who does the heavenly resurrected Jesus still think he is ?
Isn't Jesus saying in verse 18 that he still thinks of himself as the Son of God ?

First of all, God is immortal and can Not die.
Jesus was the 'first' to be resurrected to spirit life. -Col 1v18; John 3v13
Jesus is the 'last' to be personally resurrected by God. -Acts 2v32,36
God grants or gives to Jesus to have life in himself [immortal]- John 5v26
For all others, Jesus himself is the resurrection and the life. -John 11v25
What does Revelation 1v18 say ?____________

Jesus is called 'Mighty God' by Isaiah, but never is Jesus called 'Almighty God'.

According to Revelation [3v12] does the heavenly resurrected Jesus still think he has a God over him ? -Psalm 89v26

 

[InChrist]

Besides Rev [1v17 B], if you continue reading from Rev [2v8] to Rev [2v18] who does the heavenly resurrected Jesus still think he is ?
Isn't Jesus saying in verse 18 that he still thinks of himself as the Son of God ?

First of all, God is immortal and can Not die.
Jesus was the 'first' to be resurrected to spirit life. -Col 1v18; John 3v13
Jesus is the 'last' to be personally resurrected by God. -Acts 2v32,36
God grants or gives to Jesus to have life in himself [immortal]- John 5v26
For all others, Jesus himself is the resurrection and the life. -John 11v25
What does Revelation 1v18 say ?____________

Jesus is called 'Mighty God' by Isaiah, but never is Jesus called 'Almighty God'.

According to Revelation [3v12] does the heavenly resurrected Jesus still think he has a God over him ? -Psalm 89v26

You have presented some interesting verses and questions. Maybe I will have an opportunity to respond to them next week, as it is late now. I will say that Jesus always was and always will be the Son of God. This does not detract form His deity any more than a human son is no less a human than his father. God is immortal, as you have stated, yet Jesus became flesh (God with us), therefore in His humanity He could die, which was His reason for coming to earth.

That's all for now.

 

[Samurai]

Hi all.

Jesus was only a prophet. He was the son of mary. I have written an essay/text about this topic in the forum. You might wish to read it. It might interest you.

 

[anthony55]

sam:

Jesus was only a prophet.

Says who ? I know scripture says He was a Prophet, but only a Prophet, where does it say that in scripture ? Thats all I go by.

 

[anthony55]

ur

Besides Rev [1v17 B], if you continue reading from Rev [2v8] to Rev [2v18] who does the heavenly resurrected Jesus still think he is ?
Isn't Jesus saying in verse 18 that he still thinks of himself as the Son of God ?

I have read that, but that does not cancel out what was said right before that.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Depends if you are Christian or Muslim.

sam:



Says who ? I know scripture says He was a Prophet, but only a Prophet, where does it say that in scripture ? Thats all I go by.

 

[Muffled]

I just need to know... how does it make sense for “God” to incarnate as a human being so he can be tormented and killed all just to save his children. Why would he go through all that when, if he has the power to, he can just save them and forgive them as he wants whenever he wants?

This is the free will issue. God can just force people to be good but that means he doesn't have children, he has robots. It is much better if men will choose to be good and thereby have a wonderful relationship with their Father. It is love for us that causes God to do his utmost to encourage us to make that decision for good.

It makes sense because no-one else can save. Also a Father far off can be ignored but one close up and personal can not.

 

[Muffled]

yeah, a bunch of guys thought is was gods will to fly into the world trade center too...
how were they to know they were in err...all they knew was that they were on gods side.

I doubt that any of them ever asked God if that wre a good thing to do and I doubt that Islam gives a good grounding for a person to believe that God will answer such a prayer. A Christian on the other hand is guided by the Holy Spirit.

bin laden had an Imam and the Imam was in just as much error as he was. Of course he probably chose an Imam who would agree with him.

 

[Muffled]

[FONT=&quot]I have to disagree with you.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I was not at peace because the spirit at the meeting was not of God. It was emotional and carnal, maybe even demonic. I have learned over the years that God gives me a strong sense of warning when something is spiritually wrong. This was verified to me over the next couple of years concerning this situation as we saw many of the people, including leaders, at this Foursquare church having affairs, getting divorced, and living messed up lives, along with teaching strange doctrines. As a fairly new Christian I was shocked that people could talk so much about God…the Lord this and the Lord that, even telling me that I must not be baptized in the spirit because I did not speak in tongues and yet within a matter of months they were cheating on their spouse or participating in some other behavior contrary to the Bible they claimed to believe.[/FONT]

That is perfectly ok. I am not always right and I wasn't there. All I am saying is that you can not condemn God because of your lack of peace. It is not an absolute given that a lack of peace is from God.

Again this takes spiritual discernment which is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it depends on whether you were in the Spirit or in the flesh. An emotional reaction to God's presence doesn't diminish his presence. Do you consider it a good thing to be cold and implacable when God is present? How can a person be carnal in the spirit? The Spirit of God is not carnal. Demonic? This is possible but if it were not the case you will be found to be blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I would not do that lightly if I were you.

That is a good thing but a general malaise is not specific enough. Something wrong could be almost anything and not necessarily everything.

That could be symptomatic or not. It smacks of reading signs. Signs are not always reliable. It is not out of the question for a person to temporarily have the Holy Spirit and then to fall back into carnality. King Saul was a good example of that. As for doctrines, there are a million of them and no guarantee that your assessment of them is better than anyone else's.

No doubt a newbie lacks enough grounding to understand such a situation correctly. Saying that a person doesn't have the baptism of the Holy Spirit because of a lack of tongues is a fallacy but if there is no evidence of a baptism, no-one will ever know for sure including yourself. When a person goes through water baptism it is the same thing. Did the person repent? No one will ever know except the person being baptised.

 

[waitasec]

I doubt that any of them ever asked God if that wre a good thing to do and I doubt that Islam gives a good grounding for a person to believe that God will answer such a prayer. A Christian on the other hand is guided by the Holy Spirit.

so, christians are on gods side...?
your moral superiority is showing...
what would lead someone to do such an act requires a lot of religious faith
as the last words they spoke were, 'god is great!'

bin laden had an Imam and the Imam was in just as much error as he was. Of course he probably chose an Imam who would agree with him.

but you see that goes for everyone...
no one, not even those who would call themselves a christian is immune to being human... hence the reason there are so many versions of christianity.

 

[waitasec]

This is the free will issue. God can just force people to be good but that means he doesn't have children, he has robots.

yeah, god can't force them...so he'll destroy them except for his favorite...even though he knew humans had a predisposition to do evil afterward...
makes absolute sense to me...:no:

It is much better if men will choose to be good and thereby have a wonderful relationship with their Father. It is love for us that causes God to do his utmost to encourage us to make that decision for good.
It makes sense because no-one else can save. Also a Father far off can be ignored but one close up and personal can not.

funny how there are those who choose to do good without believing in god...
yet for this insecure deity it's not good enough...
it is the low self esteem this god has for itself that would require ultimatums to be presented.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You have presented some interesting verses and questions. Maybe I will have an opportunity to respond to them next week, as it is late now.

The most interesting and explicit verse from the supposed ascended biblical Yeshua is Rev. 3:12. That leads right into Chapters 4 and 5 where we see a clear distinction between "God" and "The Lamb" made by "God's" creatures in heaven.

I will say that Jesus always was and always will be the Son of God. This does not detract form His deity any more than a human son is no less a human than his father.

Deity and divinity can be regarded as two different things. There is no information that the biblical Yeshua was a god or "God". What is mentioned is that any power Yeshua possesed was granted to him by his god. This "could" make him "a" god but since he was not the one doing the (granting) then it doesn't follow that he is "God". At best it would show he was divine but this could be said of other beings mentioned in the scriptures.

God is immortal, as you have stated, yet Jesus became flesh (God with us),

This is another misconception. The prophecy in Isaiah is not about Yeshua. It was about Israel and the prohecy was told to king Ahaz and it was to be a prophecy that would unfold in the days of king Ahaz. Yeshua was never called (Immanuel/Emmanuel) nor was it a name that the angel instructed his mother to give him. Additionally the 4 gospels don't report that this title was ever bestowed on him. This was strictly the author's interpretation of the OT.

 

[anthony55]

Depends if you are Christian or Muslim.

That does not answer the question. Again says who ?

 

[waitasec]

That does not answer the question. Again says who ?

exactly...who said he was a prophet...who says he's god or the son of god (whatever that means)
whoever this was, do they have credentials...?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

who said he was a prophet

I would think the "biblical Yeshua" was by the foretelling of future events (as recorded in their bible).

who says he's god or the son of god (whatever that means)

He was called that in their bible. I think he even referred to himself that way once or twice.

whoever this was, do they have credentials...?

This "they" was supposedly his devout followers as well as himself. Not that I agree with any of them or what is mentioned in their scriptures but that's the only information we have. :sad:

 

[waitasec]

I would think the "biblical Yeshua" was by the foretelling of future events (as recorded in their bible).




He was called that in their bible. I think he even referred to himself that way once or twice.

says who? you get 4 different jesus' in 4 different gospels...and paul even contradicts jesus.

This "they" was supposedly his devout followers as well as himself. Not that I agree with any of them or what is mentioned in their scriptures but that's the only information we have. :sad:

yes it is sad...
just like we'll never know what really happened to amelia earhart

 

[anthony55]

exactly...who said he was a prophet...who says he's god or the son of god (whatever that means)
whoever this was, do they have credentials...?

Scripture says He was a Prophet. Acts 3:22 speaking of Jesus states:

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

The bible says so, thats credential enough for me, no matter how you feel about it.

Now, who says He was not a Prophet, who says He was not God or the Son of God, and i can care less what their so called credentials are for making such claims.