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Did Jesus say he was God???

herushura

herushura

Active Member
Mark2020 said:
First of all, I'd appreciate a little respect to other people's beliefs.
Second, we're discussing the Bible here. You're free to write whatever you want wherever, but I'm not discussing other topics here.
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You saying Moses/Jesus is a Non-Biblical Topic
 
javajo

javajo

Well-Known Member
Acts 20:28 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Here we see that GOD bought us with HIS OWN BLOOD. Jesus is God folks!
 
javajo

javajo

Well-Known Member
See, we (Christians) believe God was in the burning bush, we believe God bought us with his own blood. We deny the heresies that deny the deity of Christ, which crept into the early church and which Paul and John warned about. I believe you are so wrong and twist scripture so badly I am tired of conversing with you, and I don't much lately.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
javajo said:
See, we (Christians) believe God was in the burning bush, we believe God bought us with his own blood. We deny the heresies that deny the deity of Christ, which crept into the early church and which Paul and John warned about. I believe you are so wrong and twist scripture so badly I am tired of conversing with you, and I don't much lately.
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I appreciate your ad hominem, but the thing about Paul and John warning about people denying the DEITY of Christ is a completely unfounded lie. They warned about people who deny Yashua as Moshiach. In fact, the heresies they warned about (especially the "lawless" that Jesus warned about) were people like you, that's nice that you get tired of dealing with the facts that I present, but I think you're on the wrong forum if you don't want to actually debate. Telling me that I am wrong and that I twist scripture and that I'm a heretic is not a substitute for discussing the facts that I present, do you think I'm the first person to say such things? I appreciate the fact you think you're right and the facts don't matter or need to be debated, but you're in the wrong place for preaching. The word 'Own", as demonstrated, is used for family and kin. And the word "Tou" implies "of the" and is used to differentiate the "own".

Those who think the Messiah is something under than what the Messiah is supposed to be do not really accept Yashua as Messiah, even if they say they do.

There is no evidence the Early Church believed in the Deity of Christ until Tertullian, which is more of the "Late 2nd century" Church. The term "Early Church" really needs to be divide into ages because it gets flung around from anywhere between 30 to 300.
 
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javajo

javajo

Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
I appreciate your ad hominem, but the thing about Paul and John warning about people denying the DEITY of Christ is a completely unfounded lie. They warned about people who deny Yashua as Moshiach. In fact, the heresies they warned about (especially the "lawless" that Jesus warned about) were people like you, that's nice that you get tired of dealing with the facts that I present, but I think you're on the wrong forum if you don't want to actually debate. Telling me that I am wrong and that I twist scripture and that I'm a heretic is not a substitute for discussing the facts that I present, do you think I'm the first person to say such things? I appreciate the fact you think you're right and the facts don't matter or need to be debated, but you're in the wrong place for preaching. The word 'Own", as demonstrated, is used for family and kin. And the word "Tou" implies "of the" and is used to differentiate the "own".

Those who think the Messiah is something under than what the Messiah is supposed to be do not really accept Yashua as Messiah, even if they say they do.

There is no evidence the Early Church believed in the Deity of Christ until Tertullian, which is more of the "Late 2nd century" Church. The term "Early Church" really needs to be divide into ages because it gets flung around from anywhere between 30 to 300.
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I totally disagree. The Bible supports the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. It wasn't until these beliefs were attacked that the doctrine had to be formed to protect against heretical groups, which, as I see, are alive and well today.
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
javajo said:
Acts 20:28 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Here we see that GOD bought us with HIS OWN BLOOD. Jesus is God folks!
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Shermana said:
"Blood of his own", the "tou" often gets misinterpreted there.

Also, the word "own" is used for kin or family as such:
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Good one javajo!

(Acts 20:28 [NIV]) Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

(Acts 20:28 [TR]) προσεχετε ουν εαυτοις και παντι τω ποιμνιω εν ω υμας το πνευμα το αγιον εθετο επισκοπους ποιμαινειν την εκκλησιαν του θεου ην περιεποιησατο δια του ιδιου αιματος
του ιδιου αιματος: literally means " his own blood"

(Acts 20:28 [coptic]) ⲙⲁϩⲑⲏⲧⲉⲛ `ⲉⲣⲱⲧⲉⲛ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡⲓⲟϩⲓ ⲧⲏⲣϥ ⲉⲧⲁ ⲡⲓⲡ̅ⲛ̅ⲁ ⲉⲑⲟⲩⲁⲃ ⲭⲁ ⲑⲏⲛⲟⲩ `ⲛ`ⲉⲡⲓⲥⲕⲟⲡⲟⲥ `ⲛϧⲏⲧϥ `ⲉ`ⲁⲙⲟⲛⲓ `ⲛϯⲉⲕ`ⲕⲗⲏⲥⲓ`ⲁ `ⲛⲧⲉ ⲡ̅ϭ̅ⲥ ⲑⲏ ⲉⲧⲁϥ`ϫⲫⲟⲥ `ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϥ`ⲥⲛⲟϥ `ⲙⲙⲓⲛ `ⲙⲙⲟϥ
'pef esnof emmin emmof' also means "his own blood".

(Acts 20:28 [Pe****ta]) ܐܙܕܗܪܘ ܗܟܝܠ ܒܢܦܫܟܘܢ ܘܒܟܠܗ ܡܪܥܝܬܐ ܗܝ ܕܐܩܝܡܟܘܢ ܒܗ ܪܘܚܐ ܕܩܘܕܫܐ ܐܦܤܩܘܦܐ ܕܬܪܥܘܢ ܠܥܕܬܗ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܗܝ ܕܩܢܗ ܒܕܡܗ ܀
ܒܕܡܗ : (with His blood) "from Paul Younan's interlinear"
Pe****ta's translation:
(Acts 20:28 [Etheridge]) Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to the whole flock over which the Spirit of Holiness hath constituted you the bishops; to pasture the church of the Meshiha which he hath purchased with his blood.

(Acts 20:28 [AraSVDV]) اِحْتَرِزُوا اِذًا لأَنْفُسِكُمْ وَلِجَمِيعِ الرَّعِيَّةِ الَّتِي أَقَامَكُمُ الرُّوحُ الْقُدُسُ فِيهَا أَسَاقِفَةً، لِتَرْعَوْا كَنِيسَةَ اللهِ الَّتِي اقْتَنَاهَا بِدَمِهِ.
بِدَمِهِ :"bedamehe" : "with his blood"

Even this:
(Acts 20:28 [WHNU]) προσεχετε εαυτοις και παντι τω ποιμνιω εν ω υμας το πνευμα το αγιον εθετο επισκοπους ποιμαινειν την εκκλησιαν του θεου ην περιεποιησατο δια του αιματος του ιδιου

The question is whether του ιδιου is adjective or possessive genitive.
Checking other similar locations:
(John 1:41 [WHNU]) ευρισκει ουτος πρωτον τον αδελφον τον ιδιον σιμωνα και λεγει αυτω ευρηκαμεν τον μεσσιαν ο εστιν μεθερμηνευομενον χριστος
"his own brother"
(John 5:43 [WHNU]) εγω εληλυθα εν τω ονοματι του πατρος μου και ου λαμβανετε με εαν αλλος ελθη εν τω ονοματι τω ιδιω εκεινον λημψεσθε
"his own name"
(Acts 1:25 [WHNU]) λαβειν τον τοπον της διακονιας ταυτης και αποστολης αφ ης παρεβη ιουδας πορευθηναι εις τον τοπον τον ιδιον
"his own place"

we can see that [article + noun1 + article + ἴδιος] always means "his own noun1", where [article + ἴδιος] always comes as an adjective and never as a possessive genitive.

So the meaning is "with his own blood. "

If he wanted to say "of his own son", it would have been easy to say "του ιδιου υιου"

It is worth mentioning that nowhere in the NT is "tou idiou" used as a substantive referring to Christ.
 
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horizon_mj1

horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
javajo said:
Acts 20:28 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Here we see that GOD bought us with HIS OWN BLOOD. Jesus is God folks!
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess your right, ownership is 9/10ths of the law or so they say. Still quite a vapid aspect IMO:angel2:
 
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