Did Jesus say he was God???

[Mark2020]

For anyone else saying...

The NWT added it too, so what?
""
2. The smoothest and simplest reading is the adjectival reading, "his own blood." I don't know of anyone who disputes this fact. Again, as noted above, the NWT Reference Bible appendix acknowledges that this would be "the usual translation."" (Link at the end of the post)

Also Mark2020, ignoring my example of John 15:19 doesn't help your case. You want other cases where the word "Own" is used on its own for kin?

I hope you read my post well to see that I had already addressed it. I'll try the red:

(Acts 20:28 [NIV]) Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

(Acts 20:28 [TR]) προσεχετε ουν εαυτοις και παντι τω ποιμνιω εν ω υμας το πνευμα το αγιον εθετο επισκοπους ποιμαινειν την εκκλησιαν του θεου ην περιεποιησατο δια του ιδιου αιματος
του ιδιου αιματος: literally means " his own blood"

(Acts 20:28 [coptic]) ⲙⲁϩⲑⲏⲧⲉⲛ `ⲉⲣⲱⲧⲉⲛ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡⲓⲟϩⲓ ⲧⲏⲣϥ ⲉⲧⲁ ⲡⲓⲡ̅ⲛ̅ⲁ ⲉⲑⲟⲩⲁⲃ ⲭⲁ ⲑⲏⲛⲟⲩ `ⲛ`ⲉⲡⲓⲥⲕⲟⲡⲟⲥ `ⲛϧⲏⲧϥ `ⲉ`ⲁⲙⲟⲛⲓ `ⲛϯⲉⲕ`ⲕⲗⲏⲥⲓ`ⲁ `ⲛⲧⲉ ⲡ̅ϭ̅ⲥ ⲑⲏ ⲉⲧⲁϥ`ϫⲫⲟⲥ `ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϥ`ⲥⲛⲟϥ `ⲙⲙⲓⲛ `ⲙⲙⲟϥ
'pef esnof emmin emmof' also means "his own blood".

(Acts 20:28 [Pe****ta]) ܐܙܕܗܪܘ ܗܟܝܠ ܒܢܦܫܟܘܢ ܘܒܟܠܗ ܡܪܥܝܬܐ ܗܝ ܕܐܩܝܡܟܘܢ ܒܗ ܪܘܚܐ ܕܩܘܕܫܐ ܐܦܤܩܘܦܐ ܕܬܪܥܘܢ ܠܥܕܬܗ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܗܝ ܕܩܢܗ ܒܕܡܗ ܀
ܒܕܡܗ : (with His blood) "from Paul Younan's interlinear"
Pe****ta's translation:
(Acts 20:28 [Etheridge]) Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to the whole flock over which the Spirit of Holiness hath constituted you the bishops; to pasture the church of the Meshiha which he hath purchased with his blood.

(Acts 20:28 [AraSVDV]) اِحْتَرِزُوا اِذًا لأَنْفُسِكُمْ وَلِجَمِيعِ الرَّعِيَّةِ الَّتِي أَقَامَكُمُ الرُّوحُ الْقُدُسُ فِيهَا أَسَاقِفَةً، لِتَرْعَوْا كَنِيسَةَ اللهِ الَّتِي اقْتَنَاهَا بِدَمِهِ.
بِدَمِهِ :"bedamehe" : "with his blood"

Even this:
(Acts 20:28 [WHNU]) προσεχετε εαυτοις και παντι τω ποιμνιω εν ω υμας το πνευμα το αγιον εθετο επισκοπους ποιμαινειν την εκκλησιαν του θεου ην περιεποιησατο δια του αιματος του ιδιου

The question is whether του ιδιου is adjective or possessive genitive.
Checking all other similar locations:
(John 1:41 [WHNU]) ευρισκει ουτος πρωτον τον αδελφον τον ιδιον σιμωνα και λεγει αυτω ευρηκαμεν τον μεσσιαν ο εστιν μεθερμηνευομενον χριστος
"his own brother"
(John 5:43 [WHNU]) εγω εληλυθα εν τω ονοματι του πατρος μου και ου λαμβανετε με εαν αλλος ελθη εν τω ονοματι τω ιδιω εκεινον λημψεσθε
"his own name"
(Acts 1:25 [WHNU]) λαβειν τον τοπον της διακονιας ταυτης και αποστολης αφ ης παρεβη ιουδας πορευθηναι εις τον τοπον τον ιδιον
"his own place"

we can see that [article + noun1 + article + ἴδιος] always means "his own noun1", where [article + ἴδιος] always comes as an adjective and never as a possessive genitive.

So the meaning is "with his own blood. "

If he wanted to say "of his own son", it would have been easy to say "του ιδιου υιου" as in Romans 8:32

It is worth mentioning that nowhere in the NT is "tou idiou" used as a substantive referring to Christ.


For more, you can check:
For an Answer: Chrsitian Apologetics - Acts 20:28
which even points to the early translations that I had quoted in my previous post, like the coptic and the pe****ta which support this one:

(Acts 20:28 [NIV]) Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

 

[Shermana]

Did you totally ignore where I called you out for ignoring John 15:19? I have no idea how your response implies that you registered it. It clearly uses "Own" by itself for "kin". "His own place" doesn't mean he owned that house either. You'd have to prove that no one was going to their parent's or brother's house.

The RSV even adds the word "Son" for some reason, and they're 100% Trinitarian.

 

[Mark2020]

Did you totally ignore where I called you out for ignoring John 15:19? ...

Are you kidding?

Can you see this:
It is worth mentioning that nowhere in the NT is "tou idiou" used as a substantive referring to Christ.

Or this

If he wanted to say "of his own son", it would have been easy to say "του ιδιου υιου" as in Romans 8:32

 

[javajo]

Do you know why we believe Jesus is God?

 

[Shermana]

You're basically denying that John 15:19 uses the word "own" on its own.

 

[Mark2020]

Can you see this:


Checking all other similar locations:
(John 1:41 [WHNU]) ευρισκει ουτος πρωτον τον αδελφον τον ιδιον σιμωνα και λεγει αυτω ευρηκαμεν τον μεσσιαν ο εστιν μεθερμηνευομενον χριστος
"his own brother"
(John 5:43 [WHNU]) εγω εληλυθα εν τω ονοματι του πατρος μου και ου λαμβανετε με εαν αλλος ελθη εν τω ονοματι τω ιδιω εκεινον λημψεσθε
"his own name"
(Acts 1:25 [WHNU]) λαβειν τον τοπον της διακονιας ταυτης και αποστολης αφ ης παρεβη ιουδας πορευθηναι εις τον τοπον τον ιδιον
"his own place"

we can see that [article + noun1 + article + ἴδιος] always means "his own noun1", where [article + ἴδιος] always comes as an adjective and never as a possessive genitive.

 

[Shermana]

You can just pretend John 15:19 doesn't exist if you want.

You can also ignore what I said about "own place" if you want. You'll just have to prove no one was living with their parents.

 

[Mark2020]

You're basically denying that John 15:19 uses the word "own" on its own.

You still can't understand after all that!
No. idiou can be used on its own, but has never referred to the Son in the whole NT.
And has never been used as a possessive genitive, like you want to translate. It has always been used as an adjective, as I showed previously.

 

[Mark2020]

Seriously, you need more evidence than that?
2. The smoothest and simplest reading is the adjectival reading, "his own blood." I don't know of anyone who disputes this fact. Again, as noted above, the NWT Reference Bible appendix acknowledges that this would be "the usual translation.""

 

[Shermana]

Tell that to the RSV committee. So why don't you expound on John 15:19.

There's a reason its the most "usual" translation, just like how the standard version of John 1:1c as "The word was G-d" is the usual translation. You can't even do exegesis on an English phrase of what "usual" means!

 

[Mark2020]

You can just pretend John 15:19 doesn't exist if you want.

You can also ignore what I said about "own place" if you want. You'll just have to prove no one was living with their parents.

Really?
There's just too much evidence for you.
For "own place", I'll let the NWT prove it:

Acts 1:25 [NWT]
25 to take the place of this ministry and apostleship,q
from which Judas deviated to go to his own place.”

 

[Mark2020]

Or, maybe the RSV?
25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place."

 

[Shermana]

Really?
There's just too much evidence for you.
For "own place", I'll let the NWT prove it:

Acts 1:25 [NWT]
25 to take the place of this ministry and apostleship,q
from which Judas deviated to go to his own place.”

I have an idea for you, go back and actually see what I said about what "own place" means. I said something about you having to prove that no one lived with their parents or brothers and everyone owned their own house.

 

[Mark2020]

I said something about you having to prove that no one lived with their parents or brothers and everyone owned their own house.

I'll quote this post as your argument opposing all that, and let people judge:

(Acts 20:28 [NIV]) Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

(Acts 20:28 [TR]) προσεχετε ουν εαυτοις και παντι τω ποιμνιω εν ω υμας το πνευμα το αγιον εθετο επισκοπους ποιμαινειν την εκκλησιαν του θεου ην περιεποιησατο δια του ιδιου αιματος
του ιδιου αιματος: literally means " his own blood"

(Acts 20:28 [coptic]) ⲙⲁϩⲑⲏⲧⲉⲛ `ⲉⲣⲱⲧⲉⲛ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡⲓⲟϩⲓ ⲧⲏⲣϥ ⲉⲧⲁ ⲡⲓⲡ̅ⲛ̅ⲁ ⲉⲑⲟⲩⲁⲃ ⲭⲁ ⲑⲏⲛⲟⲩ `ⲛ`ⲉⲡⲓⲥⲕⲟⲡⲟⲥ `ⲛϧⲏⲧϥ `ⲉ`ⲁⲙⲟⲛⲓ `ⲛϯⲉⲕ`ⲕⲗⲏⲥⲓ`ⲁ `ⲛⲧⲉ ⲡ̅ϭ̅ⲥ ⲑⲏ ⲉⲧⲁϥ`ϫⲫⲟⲥ `ⲉⲃⲟⲗ ϩⲓⲧⲉⲛ ⲡⲉϥ`ⲥⲛⲟϥ `ⲙⲙⲓⲛ `ⲙⲙⲟϥ
'pef esnof emmin emmof' also means "his own blood".

(Acts 20:28 [Pe****ta]) ܐܙܕܗܪܘ ܗܟܝܠ ܒܢܦܫܟܘܢ ܘܒܟܠܗ ܡܪܥܝܬܐ ܗܝ ܕܐܩܝܡܟܘܢ ܒܗ ܪܘܚܐ ܕܩܘܕܫܐ ܐܦܤܩܘܦܐ ܕܬܪܥܘܢ ܠܥܕܬܗ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܗܝ ܕܩܢܗ ܒܕܡܗ ܀
ܒܕܡܗ : (with His blood) "from Paul Younan's interlinear"
Pe****ta's translation:
(Acts 20:28 [Etheridge]) Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to the whole flock over which the Spirit of Holiness hath constituted you the bishops; to pasture the church of the Meshiha which he hath purchased with his blood.

(Acts 20:28 [AraSVDV]) اِحْتَرِزُوا اِذًا لأَنْفُسِكُمْ وَلِجَمِيعِ الرَّعِيَّةِ الَّتِي أَقَامَكُمُ الرُّوحُ الْقُدُسُ فِيهَا أَسَاقِفَةً، لِتَرْعَوْا كَنِيسَةَ اللهِ الَّتِي اقْتَنَاهَا بِدَمِهِ.
بِدَمِهِ :"bedamehe" : "with his blood"

Even this:
(Acts 20:28 [WHNU]) προσεχετε εαυτοις και παντι τω ποιμνιω εν ω υμας το πνευμα το αγιον εθετο επισκοπους ποιμαινειν την εκκλησιαν του θεου ην περιεποιησατο δια του αιματος του ιδιου

The question is whether του ιδιου is adjective or possessive genitive.
Checking all other similar locations:
(John 1:41 [WHNU]) ευρισκει ουτος πρωτον τον αδελφον τον ιδιον σιμωνα και λεγει αυτω ευρηκαμεν τον μεσσιαν ο εστιν μεθερμηνευομενον χριστος
"his own brother"
(John 5:43 [WHNU]) εγω εληλυθα εν τω ονοματι του πατρος μου και ου λαμβανετε με εαν αλλος ελθη εν τω ονοματι τω ιδιω εκεινον λημψεσθε
"his own name"
(Acts 1:25 [WHNU]) λαβειν τον τοπον της διακονιας ταυτης και αποστολης αφ ης παρεβη ιουδας πορευθηναι εις τον τοπον τον ιδιον
"his own place"

we can see that [article + noun1 + article + ἴδιος] always means "his own noun1", where [article + ἴδιος] always comes as an adjective and never as a possessive genitive.

So the meaning is "with his own blood. "

If he wanted to say "of his own son", it would have been easy to say "του ιδιου υιου" as in Romans 8:32

It is worth mentioning that nowhere in the NT is "tou idiou" used as a substantive referring to Christ.


For more, you can check:
For an Answer: Chrsitian Apologetics - Acts 20:28
which even points to the early translations that I had quoted in my previous post, like the coptic and the pe****ta which support this one:

(Acts 20:28 [NIV]) Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Edit:
ps Shermana: you're totally misinterpreting Acts 1:25

 

[javajo]

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

No.
"I am" means Ehyeh.
But this verse was translated into Greek as "Ego Emi Ho On" or "I am the Being".
Jesus used both expressions: "Ego Emi" and "Ho On". Both in the absolute sense, ie without predicate.
(Exodus 3:14 [NIV]) God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "
I AM WHO I AM: In Hebrew, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh. In Greek, Ego Emi Ho On.

Oh, okay. Thank you for telling me.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Again, as man......

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but
the will of Him who sent Me.

 

[Mark2020]

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

Yes, very clear.
By the way, we've had a discussion about this one too, before many pages in this thread.
I promise you'll laugh if you read their counter-argument.

 

[Mark2020]

Oh, okay. Thank you for telling me.

You're welcome!

 

[Shermana]

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

Should read as: "G-d is thy throne", it's a quote from Psalms about the King. Even CARM admits this is a worthy way of reading it. That's saying volumes. The RSV has an interesting footnote on it.