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Did Jesus say he was God???

M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
i'm not going to any link you provide you are going to have to post the argument yourself.
i am also curious as to why you don't try to refute my argument with your own words but you rely on someone else's interpretation... you can rely on your own reasoning can't you?
besides i posted more than just that:
Click to expand...
That's your choice.
I have to do nothing, my friend. I've already proved what I wanted to many times already in this thread.

For your question, you want them to betray Him too?
Judas wasn't forced to betray Jesus, he did it with his own choice. But God used that sin for the sake of our salvation. You can't possibly ask God to make the disciples betray Jesus too. For them, it was betrayal, but God used it for our salvation.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Mark2020 said:
That's your choice.
I have to do nothing, my friend. I've already proved what I wanted to many times already in this thread.

For your question, you want them to betray Him too?
Judas wasn't forced to betray Jesus, he did it with his own choice. But God used that sin for the sake of our salvation. You can't possibly ask God to make the disciples betray Jesus too. For them, it was betrayal, but God used it for our salvation.
Click to expand...

then jesus shouldn't be the only one to take the credit for atonement...
judas was instrumental and should be praised for providing the opportunity
 
look3467

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
waitasec said:
i want to know what it is they were watching out for, why jesus didn't want them to fall asleep. if judas was coming to betray him, why was it so important NOT to fall asleep

and when he said "rise! lets us go! here comes my betrayer!" i understand that as jesus saying lets get out of here! my betrayer is approaching! not rise let us greet my betrayer.

your explanation covered temptation...but you never got into what the temptation was all about...what was the purpose of staying awake?
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... "i want to know what it is they were watching out for"...
Click to expand...
The point is that they were tired from their own works and could no longer hang with Jesus.

Mans works are as filthy rags and the point of it is that they could not keep up with Jesus. No man could save God be in Him.

But after Jesus had prayed, the resting of the apostles changes perspective from their personal works to, that of the works of Christ.

For His hour was just ahead.

Jesus thus said " Sleep on now, and take your rest" for your works are now mine to accomplish.

Can you see the real picture of what is taking place?

Mankind can now rest from it's own attempts at righteous works in order to enter into the kingdom of God for Jesus at His resurrection will have done it for them.

Got to be careful you all don't get stuck on word definitions which will not allow you to see the spiritual message in all of it.

Blessings, AJ
 
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look3467

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
waitasec said:
then jesus shouldn't be the only one to take the credit for atonement...
judas was instrumental and should be praised for providing the opportunity
Click to expand...

Not only was Judas, the high priests, peter and the Roman government all used mightily in the salvation of your soul, mine and all of them as well.

Ain't God just wonderful?

Blessings, AJ
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Mark2020 said:
Did he carry humans sins and die on the cross , or did he betrayed someone for money?
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but you see without the 'betrayal' you would be hopeless, dead in your sins.
you owe judas some credit for making that possible.
and besides judas died for you too, carrying the regret for what he did (which still doesn't make any sense)
seems like jesus uses people as pawns for his purpose.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
look3467 said:
The point is that they were tired from their own works and could no longer hang with Jesus.

Mans works are as filthy rags and the point of it is that they could not keep up with Jesus. No man could save God be in Him.

But after Jesus had prayed, the resting of the apostles changes perspective from their personal works to, that of the works of Christ.

For His hour was just ahead.
Click to expand...
what would have worked and been consistent with the idea that jesus was a willing sacrifice was if he turned himself in...he didn't he wanted to run and he needed his apostles to be on the look out for the betrayer

Jesus thus said " Sleep on now, and take your rest" for your works are now mine to accomplish.
Click to expand...
where?
Can you see the real picture of what is taking place?
Click to expand...
i'll wait till you provide me with a passage...
Mankind can now rest from it's own attempts at righteous works in order to enter into the kingdom of God for Jesus at His resurrection will have done it for them.

Got to be careful you all don't get stuck on word definitions which will not allow you to see the spiritual message in all of it.

Blessings, AJ
Click to expand...

you don't need to preach to me what mankind can now have access to...this isn't the point of me wanting to know why didn't jesus just turn himself in and take on the full responsibility for providing a willful atonement.
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
but you see ...
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You can trick yourself with that, but not me.
The point is that God used this sin to save us. He didn't make him sin. When Judas betrayed Him, he did it for money not for our salvation.

(Romans 11:33-36 [NIV])
Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor? Who has ever given to God, that God should repay him? For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Mark2020 said:
You can trick yourself with that, but not me.
The point is that God used this sin to save us. He didn't make him sin. When Judas betrayed Him, he did it for money not for our salvation.
Click to expand...
i don't see the point in doing that if his purpose was to provide atonement...
had he turned himself in we would have a much more honorable view of jesus the man/god...the way he is portrayed looks like he just a man full of fear in the hands of those who want to destroy him when he should already know that he would conquer death as god :confused:
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
i don't see the point in doing that if his purpose was to provide atonement...
had he turned himself in we would have a much more honorable view of jesus the man/god...the way he is portrayed looks like he just a man full of fear in the hands of those who want to destroy him when he should already know that he would conquer death as god :confused:
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Why would He turn himself in? Is He an evil-doer to do so? No, He wasn't, there's no reason to do so.
He wasn't full of fear, as you said.
He knew He was to conquer death as God:
(John 2:18-22 [NIV])
Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?" Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Mark2020 said:
Now you're starting your mockery, to which I won't respond.
I think this point is clear by now.
Click to expand...

how am i mocking...?
your argument of him turning himself in was an evil act and
there's no reason to do so.
Click to expand...
doesn't add up if jesus was who he said he was...and isn't that the charge against him...?
what was so evil about turning himself in and saying "yes i am god", it was the truth right?
 
javajo

javajo

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
he knew the authorities were looking for him right?
Click to expand...
He didn't exactly hide. Besides there was prophecy being fulfilled:

He would be betrayed by a friend. Psalm 41:9/Mark 14:10
For 30 pieces of silver. Zechariah 11:12/Matthew 26:14-16
That would be thrown in the temple and used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:13/Matthew 27:3, 5-7
His disciples would be scattered. Zechariah 13:7/Mark 14:50; Matthew 26:31

Also in the Zechariah passage he is a Shepherd, and they found him as a Shepherd with his flock which was scattered. Zechariah 13/Mathew 26:31
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
waitasec said:
doesn't add up if jesus was who he said he was...and isn't that the charge against him...?
what was so evil about turning himself in and saying "yes i am god", it was the truth right?
Click to expand...

No, that wasn't a charge against Him yet. The charges and accusations came later.
 
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