-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
yeshua.org
Yeshua.org
Prophecy fulfilled is sufficient evidence that the Bible alone is the Word of God. No other religion in the world can make this claim. There are over 300 prophecies in the Old Testament that point to the coming of the Jewish Messiah, each of which was satisfied by Yeshua, that is, Jesus Christ. These prophecies were written hundreds, and in some cases a few thousand years before Christ. The odds of 1 person fulfilling these prophecies is beyond human comprehension. The Bible validates itself.
Also, there are many other marvels hidden within the Bible. For instance, throughout the Bible the number 7 is used to symbolize God and perfection. A 19th century Russian-born mathematician named Ivan Panin discovered patterns based on the number 7 called heptadic structures within the Gospel of Matthew that are beyond the ability of any human to engineer, even with today's super computers. Look into yourself before you dismiss it. Here again is evidence that the source of the Bible can only be from the One who claims to be the author of life, Yeshua, Adonai, God himself.
Also, there are many other marvels hidden within the Bible. For instance, throughout the Bible the number 7 is used to symbolize God and perfection. A 19th century Russian-born mathematician named Ivan Panin discovered patterns based on the number 7 called heptadic structures within the Gospel of Matthew that are beyond the ability of any human to engineer, even with today's super computers. Look into yourself before you dismiss it. Here again is evidence that the source of the Bible can only be from the One who claims to be the author of life, Yeshua, Adonai, God himself.
Shermana
Heretic
Do you actually know what these OT prophecies of the Moshiach are to begin with?
Thanks for that.
Some entertainment is required in the middle of serious discussion.
outhouse
Atheistically
serious is fine
To bad we ignore all scholarships on every biblical subjects in favor of personal opinion of biased theist.
you keep throwing darts in a darkroom praying to hit the board instead of trying to hit the mark
serious is fine
To bad we ignore all scholarships on every biblical subjects in favor of personal opinion of biased theist.
you keep throwing darts in a darkroom praying to hit the board instead of trying to hit the mark
Keep on.
The discussion has been serious for a while here.
We need more of that.
outhouse
Atheistically
I thought the website was laughable with false information. Starts off with the two seed theory and goes downhill from there.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
No, that's not why they sought to kill him. They sought to kill him way before chapter 8 (See. John 7:1). Even then you have to go back to see what he said as to why they sought to kill him and there is no mention of him claiming to be "God". About the time you get to chapter 8 tempers are flared. He begins to assert his claim to be the messiah (see. 8:28), *insults* them by telling them that they are children of the devil and calls them liars (see. 8:44 and 8:55). They were ticked at him at this point and said he was a Samaritan and possessed by a devil. This was just fuel on the fire and another reason to kill him. We know that before John 8:58 they sought to kill him and it wasn't for any claims of being "God" (see. 8:37 and 8:52). His claim that he was before Abraham was seen as a disrespect to the Jews given that Jews see Abraham as their patriarch. We see this in Judaism and Islam.
No, just don't see the supposed connection of Yeshua's widely used saying of (ego eimi) to the Septuagint's render of Exodus 3:14 (ego eimi ho on = I am The Being) or the Jewish (Eye Asher Eyeh = I will be that I will be).
Last edited:
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
You were supposed to prove (overwhelmingly) that Yeshua is "God" (see. your post #1). You've failed and I'm not the only person here that has told you this. You supposedly did this by presenting scripture alone. I presented scripture to the contrary. I have said plenty of times in this thread as well as others that using the bible to prove the bible makes no sense...especially in light of the many interpretations.
No I didn't
Actually the passage is about Yeshua making a claim to be the Messiah and being sanctified and sent into the world as such by his god.
How about considering the fact that the word "one" has multiple legitimate meanings. Even if the Father and the Son were not "one" in substance, they could still be "one" in everything that really matters. Aren't perfect, absolute, incomprehensible unity of will, purpose, mind, heart, power and glory enough? Why is a Son who is physically distinct from His own Father in some way a heresy, even when the Bible makes this relationship absolutely clear? The word one has a number of meanings, one of which is "united." Trinitarians insist that one must be understood to mean a numerical unit, a single "substance," instead of granting that it is much more reasonable, not to mention scripturally consistent, to understand it as meaning "united."
Consider the following verses:
Exodus 24:3 ...and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.
Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
In each of these verses, we can see that the word "one" is used to denote unity, as opposed to an actual number of units.
Last edited:
waitasec
Veteran Member
context:
the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning
the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : environment, setting <the historical context of the war>
Context - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
In John 7:1, they sought to kill Him for other reasons: "for healing a man on the sabbath day, and for asserting his equality with God" (Gill)
But in John 8:59, they wanted to stone Him for saying He is God, as previously explained.
You're obviously trying to change the subject again, since I used another verse. I told you before (but you ignored) that "on" is the present participle of "eimi", and agian used absolutely. And I showed before that in Revelation 1 Jesus used "ho on".
Again:
[FONT="]The contrast between [/FONT]γενεσθαι[FONT="][genesthai] (entrance into existence of Abraham) and [/FONT]εἰμι[FONT="][eimi] (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between [/FONT]ἐν[FONT="] [en] in 1:1 and [/FONT]ἐγενετο[FONT="] [egeneto] in 1:14. See the contrast also in Psa. 90:2 between God ([/FONT]εἰ[FONT="] [ei], art) and the mountains ([/FONT]γενηθηναι[FONT="] [genēthēnai]). See the same use of [/FONT]εἰμι[FONT="] [eimi] in John 6:20; 9:9; 8:24, 28; 18:6.[/FONT]
γενέσθαι and εἰμί are simply different verbs. If the meaning intended was that Jesus came into existence like Abraham, but before him, the same verb would have been used.
John 8:58
I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί
Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη γενηθῆναι καὶ πλασθῆναι τὴν γῆν καὶ τὴν οἰκουμένην καὶ ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ
Note how "eimi" is used absolutely here too: σὺ εἶ (You are God)
The two verses are very similar:
σὺ εἶ: you are (You are God)
ἐγὼ εἰμί: I am
The same verb ειμι, Present active indicative. (used in the absolute sense)
So by comparison, it means "I am God".
Throwing the word God at the end of that doesn't even make sense in the context of what is being said. If he wanted to say he is God then there was no reason to involve Abraham and certainly no reason to say "Before". Either an existence before abraham is being explained or he is just saying he has greater authority and I lean toward the latter. Either way they were very quick to grab stones no matter what he said.
It makes perfect sense.
And if you even tried to read or understand my post, you wouldn't have said "throwing the word"
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
context:
the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning
the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : environment, setting <the historical context of the war>
Context - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Yep...some commentaries go a step further and take the context back to chapter 5...