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Did Jesus say he was God???

waitasec

Veteran Member
i just don't get how jesus talks to himself that way if jesus says he's god.
why pray this prayer if he is god in the 1st place...?

he should know all of this, he should already have the glory he's asking for and he should already grant his disciples the protection he's asking for...it's complete and utter nonsense to be asking these things from yourself in that manner...
 

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
i just don't get how jesus talks to himself that way if jesus says he's god.
why pray this prayer if he is god in the 1st place...?

he should know all of this, he should already have the glory he's asking for and he should already grant his disciples the protection he's asking for...it's complete and utter nonsense to be asking these things from yourself in that manner...

So I think you got the idea. :)

For Jesus' prayer, I remember explaining it to you before.
 

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
jesus thought he was the son of god through faith, thats a given.
:areyoucra

Nope. Prove it.
This doesn't even explain how is not of this world.

I already proved my view:

(John 3:13 [NIV]) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.
 
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waitasec

Veteran Member
Nope. Prove it.

I already proved my view:

(John 3:13 [NIV]) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

and i already asked you, which you ignored, how can jesus have gone to heaven if he hadn't died yet?

you argument isn't with me it's with the gospel of john
 

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
and i already asked you, which you ignored, how can jesus have gone to heaven if he hadn't died yet?

The verse is clear:

(John 3:13 [NIV]) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

He came from heaven since He is God.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
The verse is clear:

(John 3:13 [NIV]) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man.

He came from heaven since He is God.
you're just reading one part of the sentence, a common practice of yours.

gone into heaven is qualified by the word except
meaning jesus went to heaven from earth before he died....did he?

again, had the statement been, 'no one has ever been in heaven except the one who came from..' then your argument is valid, but it doesn't say that, does it?
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
where did you get "from earth" from ?
where else is he contrasting heaven with mars?

where did you get "before he died" from?
the word gone

You're just avoiding the obvious meaning.

son of man is not an obvious meaning it's another one of you moot points to distract what the original topic was

just as and even as
care to explain your interpretation of just as and even as in the context of john 17 or are you going to continually dodge the question?
 

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
where else is he contrasting heaven with mars?
you gave no reply here

the word gone
No.
The Greek anabaino means "to ascend" or "go up"
No implication of death.

(John 3:13 [KJV]) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

son of man is not an obvious meaning it's another one of you moot points to distract what the original topic was
"son of man" refers to Jesus, you should know that.

I think the idea is clear now.

just as and even as
care to explain your interpretation of just as and even as in the context of john 17 or are you going to continually dodge the question?
So as we saw in (John 17:16 [KJV])
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

the disciples are "not of the world" figuratively, they were born in this world, but called out of it.
While Jesus is "not of the world" since He came from heaven.
There is a comparison, but the cases are not identical.

Same here:
(John 17:21 [KJV]) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

"all be one" in faith, be one figuratively, and the mood used is subjunctive not indicative.
While "thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee" in nature and essence.

And note that He didn't say "they all may be one with/in You"
nor did He say "we all be one in You"

This verse should make it clearer:
(John 10:16 [KJV]) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
 
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Shermana

Heretic
Though Son of Man was a title Jesus used of himself, it is not exclusive for him:

Ezekiel 2:1 He said to me, "Son of man, stand up on your feet and I will speak to you."

Hebrews 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified: "What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him?

And though he doesn't say "One with you", he says "One with us".

http://bible.cc/john/17-22.htm

Either way, he said "let them be one", and then said "one with us", thus the "I and the Father are one" has the same context of "let them be one" "as we are one".
 
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waitasec

Veteran Member
you gave no reply here
No.
The Greek anabaino means "to ascend" or "go up"

No implication of death.

(John 3:13 [KJV]) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

"son of man" refers to Jesus, you should know that.

I think the idea is clear now.

nope it's moot.

So as we saw in (John 17:16 [KJV])
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

the disciples are "not of the world" figuratively, they were born in this world, but called out of it.

"even as i am not of this world", figuratively speaking, no less...because even as is implicit that it is identical with equal meaning with the disciples who are "not of the world"

While Jesus is "not of the world" since He came from heaven.
There is a comparison, but the cases are not identical.
then just as and even as mean what then...?
what is the point having those words in the sentence?

Same here:
(John 17:21 [KJV]) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

"all be one" in faith, be one figuratively, and the mood used is subjunctive not indicative.
as this is:
While "thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee" in nature and essence.
to be taken figuratively then.

This verse should make it clearer:
(John 10:16 [KJV]) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

another moot point. he already mentioned those others in chapter 17:20
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
 

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
nope it's moot.
Calling a point moot without explaining why shows that you have no reply to it.

implicit that it is identical
No.
I already explained why.

then just as and even as mean what then...?
what is the point having those words in the sentence?
Just similarity or comparison.
I already explained with proof.

as this is:
to be taken figuratively then.
Again no.
As the previous example.

another moot point.
Sorry, that's useless.
 
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