Did Jesus say he was God???

[Dirty Penguin]

Rev. 1:17-18
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Any questions?

Nope.....because the Book Of Revelation also expresses Yeshua not to be God. Actually it was Yeshua in that book that expressed he has a god.....

 

[Katzpur]

In this you are correct. The body of Jesus can't be equated with God because it is a creation. However God breathed a spirit into Adam and it became a living soul. In Jesus God breathed His own spirit into the body and it became the living soul of God.
you can call that a manifestation of God if you like but then we are just manifestations of our spirit as well. There is no loss of identity in incarnation. My spirit defines who I am and God's spirit defines who He is.

If Jesus did not become the living soul of God until God breathed His own spirit into His body, then what was Jesus' status prior to His incarnation? Are you saying He had no spirit of His own and needed His Father's spirit to become who He was?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If Jesus did not become the living soul of God until God breathed His own spirit into His body, then what was Jesus' status prior to His incarnation? Are you saying He had no spirit of His own and needed His Father's spirit to become who He was?

Better yet...Where can I find the verse in the four gospels where it said "God breathed his spirit into Yeshua".....?

Better Yet....Who and what was Yeshua all those years before God supposedly did this...?

Better Yet...If Jesus is God then why would God have to breath his spirit into himself...?:sarcastic

Better Yet....Why did Holy Spirit descend upon himself when he was being baptised...If he was already God?:areyoucra

Better Yet...Why did God need to be strengthened by his creation (luke 22:43)...?

Better Yet...Why in the Book Of Revelation, supposedly AFTER Yeshua ascended...who is supposed to be God, does Yeshua say he has a god...?

Better Yet...Why in the Book of Revelation does John speak of the Lamb, whom people have told me is referring to Yeshua, clearly say the one sitting on the throne is God...but shows that Lamb is seperate from God and is the one worthy of opening the seals?


I mean really....!!!!! Come on guys......

Not only does the bible show Yeshua to be seperate from God before his god sent him....he on earth tells us and shows us he has a god.....and then in the last book after his supposed ascension he says he has a god......

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Nope.....because the Book Of Revelation also expresses Yeshua not to be God. Actually it was Yeshua in that book that expressed he has a god.....

Yes, Jesus does recognize that the Father is God and that he is above Him. Never-the-less, he clearly states that he is also the Alpha and the Omega,(because the Father Anointed Him), that he died and came back to life. But hey, this little song and dance of your's is boring me so I will go on to other thread and share the good news elsewhere. :yes:

 

[Popeyesays]

Yes, Jesus does recognize that the Father is God and that he is above Him. Never-the-less, he clearly states that he is also the Alpha and the Omega,(because the Father Anointed Him), that he died and came back to life. But hey, this little song and dance of your's is boring me so I will go on to other thread and share the good news elsewhere. :yes:

Alpha and Omega refers to the Prophetic cycle, not God. God is neither first nor last, He is pre-existent.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Alpha and Omega refers to the Prophetic cycle, not God. God is neither first nor last, He is pre-existent.

Regards,
Scott

Where can you show me in the Bible that describes the Prophetic cycle?

 

[Popeyesays]

Where can you show me in the Bible that describes the Prophetic cycle?

Abraham to Moses to Jesus for starters.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Abraham to Moses to Jesus for starters.

Regards,
Scott

John 8:58

58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"This does not fit your model.

 

[Popeyesays]

John 8:58

58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"This does not fit your model.

Indeed, before Abraham existed as a physical entity the Logos was already in existence. Where we differ is that I belief the physical Abraham was the Logos.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Indeed, before Abraham existed as a physical entity the Logos was already in existence. Where we differ is that I belief the physical Abraham was the Logos.

Regards,

Scott

Ok... but I can't find, in the Bible, where it says in any way that Abraham existed before Jesus. The whole point of the Scripture that I referenced was the Jesus existed before Abraham.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Indeed, before Abraham existed as a physical entity the Logos was already in existence. Where we differ is that I belief the physical Abraham was the Logos.

Regards,

Scott

Ok... but I can't find, in the Bible, where it says in any way that Abraham existed before Jesus. The whole point of the Scripture that I referenced was the Jesus existed before Abraham.

 

[Charity]

Alpha and Omega refers to the Prophetic cycle, not God. God is neither first nor last, He is pre-existent.

Regards,
Scott

Alpha and Omega The Beginning and the End Meaning He was there at the Beginning and He will be there at the End.... "I Am' Meaning He has always been Jesus said I and the Father are one. He was sent to earth as the Son of God came to dwell and live with humans. Jesus said "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" What makes this so difficult to understand?

 

[Popeyesays]

The actual verse was, "Before Abraham was I am." Which is actually a reference toGOD, as God named Himself in the burning bush to Moses.

So the verse really means "Before Abraham, God." Sometimes it pays to go back to the Hebrew.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

Alpha and Omega The Beginning and the End Meaning He was there at the Beginning and He will be there at the End.... "I Am' Meaning He has always been Jesus said I and the Father are one. He was sent to earth as the Son of God came to dwell and live with humans. Jesus said "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" What makes this so difficult to understand?

Because it clearly means that Jesus is telling He is NOT God. What's so hard to understand in that?

Start with the words, not the tradition.:foryou:

Regards,

Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

The actual verse was, "Before Abraham was I am." Which is actually a reference toGOD, as God named Himself in the burning bush to Moses.

So the verse really means "Before Abraham, God." Sometimes it pays to go back to the Hebrew.

Regards,

Scott

No Scott-- Jesus is saying that he was before Abraham and here's the Scripture in context.

54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." 57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.



The Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant or why would they what to stone him? They wanted to stone him because in there minds, Jesus had blasphemed by stating his preexistence of Abraham which could have only been true if he were God.

I suggest you read Michael L. Brown's "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" which completely uses the Hebrew version of the OT.

 

[Popeyesays]

They questioned Him because they wanted to stone Him. It was a set-up. They thought better of it.

54: God glorifies His Messenger by choosing Him. It does not mean the Messenger is God.

55: I know God better than you, who are not faithful to Him.

56: Abraham rejoiced in the day of Jesus, in the Day of Moses, in the Day of Himself, in the Day of Muhammed, in the Day of The Bab, in the Day of Baha`u'llah.

58: He WAS Abraham in that the Messengers are ONE.

"The Call of God hath been raised, and
the light of His countenance hath been lifted up upon men. It behoveth every man to blot out the trace of every idle word from the tablet of his heart, and to gaze, with an open and unbiased mind, on the signs of His Revelation, the proofs of His Mission, and the tokens of His glory. Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger , hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. No sooner, however, had the Day Star of His Revelation manifested itself in the heaven of God's Will, than all, except those whom the Almighty was pleased to guide, were found dumbfounded and heedless. O thou that hast remembered Me! The most grievous veil hath shut out the peoples of the earth from His glory, and hindered them from hearkening to His call. God grant that the light of unity may envelop the whole earth, and that the seal, "the Kingdom is God's", may be stamped upon the brow of all its peoples. "

Gleanings, pp. 10-11

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

By the way the TaNakh is NOT the Old Testament. The books are not numbered the same, and the whole thing is organized differently.

Regards,
Scott

 

[UnityNow101]

If Jesus claimed to be God, than he was high on more than just the holy spirit. How can a man be God? More importantly, how can a man(Jesus) who claimed to have a God in the Book of John, be God Almighty? Can God have a God? Does any of this ultimately matter? Are we not in the same position that we were in 2,000+ years ago before Jesus was born? Did anything really change? And if nothing did really change and we are all still hanging on to ideas and opinions, then what does that say about your God and his power? From my vantage point, not a whole lot.

 

[oldtest.]

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)

now i want you to read each one again and actually show where jesus says he is God , saying the father does not denote 100% that thats speaking of God and jesus sayingthat God is Good and hes a good shepard still no connection,if the prophecy in the book of Isa. was about jesus then his name would be emmanuel, the old reads as such but the new reads (right after showing you that it reads emmanuel )"and he called his name jesus" and being called God does not mean that you are God, and saying I am the light,i am the way,i am the bread,i am the door,i am the reserrection and the vine still does not say that I am God, the high priest asked him by the living God, TEll us are you the son of living God and jesus answered him you say i am, perfect time for him to add in i am the son of God amongst all those i am's or when plainly asked still no to the point answer or statement saying "I am the son of God or that he is God, these are all overwhelming assumptions that when truly examined one has to agree that all these instances theres room for questioning and even more for doubt, even jesus said it himself if any man do his will , he will know if he speaks of God or himself ,even that verse lets you know that he is not God and that theres a chance that he is speaking of himself in which case one would have to ask if he were speaking of himself theres a chance hes not with God or for God and if hes for himself (mmmm.... wonder who fits that description) think old, what was and still is i might add Gods will ?its the Law, please read psalm 1:1-6 and psalm 119 all ,do these words sound as if they have an experation date if you think that then read malachi chapters 3 & 4 all, see where it reads God saying :I change not and last but not least remember ye the law of moses with the statutes and judgements , REMEMBER the LAW , why such a reminder right before this major change think .
christians are under grace not under the Laws of God they pretend that they follow the ten commandments, but do they the first four commandments are totally ignored ,did God or jesus say I am the Lord thy God that brought you out of the land of egypt, out of the house of bondage. i believe the verse starts out with and God spake all these words, next thou shalt make no graven image, lets just look around lets say um your house how many pictures or little figurines (idols) do you see and even if you dont bow down to it or them like millions do, your idol is set up in your heart< because if someone can show you an image and you at the least say thats supposed to be jesus the idol of the world is within,and if you read on in Ex. 20: 5 & 6 you will without a doubt read that God will show mercy unto thousands of generations that loves him and keeps his commandments, ( did God give the law just to take it back one day?, see how when God speaks in this book theres no mistaken or possible room for doubt, I am GOD , My commandments) next theres the name in vain, in this case it means to make void , how many of you have even thought to ask how come jesus speaks of his fathers name, even reveals it to the disciples but not once is spoken by him, even the name jehovah( not the name either) not written in the gospels, what is his fathers name? and last but not least< remember the sabbath day, to keep it Holy six days to work one to rest. where is your day of rest even if you say sunday is it thats not the seventh day of the week matt. 28:1 reads that at the end of the sabbath toward the first day of the week<the two maryswent to the sepulchre, so you are not observing Gods sabbath even if you just had the day wrong you still dont rest its another day of labor and folly cooking, laundry even leaving the house is wrong its supposed to be a day of meditation and reflection and most important REST . if you dont think its important just consider this ,it finished creation. these 4 are not even listed in the new test. yet most of you just learned that still this question has not been answered difinitively if anything it should have shadows of at least a double take by those who are not closed minded or think that if they doubt in any way they will go to hell but remember even jesus says you can blaspheme the name of the son of man and be forgiven but not the Holy spirit( by the way is he the son of God or the son of man? God is not the author of confusion) now if you can with knowledge explain these things away someone anyone hit me email pm whatever school of show and prove any verse i mentioned that you dont know ask. now heres my question of the ages ,this, i dont even think any of you have even seen or gave a second thought to ,who is the destroyer of the gentiles mentioned in jer.4:7 riddle me that? anyone!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Alpha and Omega refers to the Prophetic cycle, not God. God is neither first nor last, He is pre-existent.

Regards,
Scott

Thank you Scott.....I felt not the need to answer such an elementary question.

But the question Jeremy asked by citing revelation means nothing considering it was Yeshua....(AFTER the supposed ascension)...who said he has a god. This is right there in the book of revelation. John clearly saw that there was a difference between the one sitting on the throne who he called God verses the Lamb who he says was worthy of opening the seven seals......TWO completely seperate "beings".....