Died For Our Sins ?

[Heneni]

Not really, the views of Jesus and Paul have been:

interpretted differently
Translated differently

The pope within catholicsm is not the only interpretter of scripture....
There have and are appointed people of wisdom that also are "allowed" or more correctly, officially "allowed"....far from just the pope. There have been many great people...

There is actually more than one pope, the orthodox churches all have their own also....

Cutting out the holy spirit....:sarcastic I'll say no more on this ridiculous notion, considering protestanism has removed transubstantiation...making it arguably like tennis without balls....

I dont believe for a second that paul contradicted jesus. Why would he, he recieved his revelations from him.

Unless you can use scripture to prove that he said someting that jesus didnt approve of.

And why is cutting out the HS not a rediculous notion?

 

[Mr Cheese]

I never said paul differed from Jesus
What I said is that the views and ideas of Paul and Jesus have been translated and interpretted differently by different groups over the centuries....I see my words were confusing though, my apologies

Have you even heard of Calvinism etc?

Ridiculous notion: "considering protestanism has removed transubstantiation"

 

[Heneni]

I never said paul differed from Jesus
What I said is that the views and ideas of Paul and Jesus have been translated and interpretted differently by different groups over the centuries....I see my words were confusing though, my apologies

Have you even heard of Calvinism etc?

Ridiculous notion: "considering protestanism has removed transubstantiation"

Have heard of calvanism, havent studied it in depth and as far as transbustantiation is concerned its a catholic doctrine. Um...dont believe in that either.

So do you think as a gnostic man, that paul had it together?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Have heard of calvanism, havent studied it in depth and as far as transbustantiation is concerned its a catholic doctrine. Um...dont believe in that either.

So do you think as a gnostic man, that paul had it together?

+
If you want to discuss christianity, and the themes discussed here:
ie died for our sins, who is saved, who is chosen, who is going to hell, who will go to venus etc. I humbly suggest you at least learn a little about calvinism..... as it really is a fundamental part of a large part of protestantism.... and tulip...

transbustantiation is also a fundamental part of Christianity, as I stated it is largely like playing tennis without balls, if one removes it.... but that doesn't stop people from doing so....

Do I think Paul had it together? Yes and no I think paul certainly had a Gnostic leaning in his teachings... but these have been largely white washed over and ignored by Christian groups such as your own. I have yet to fully examine Paul's Gnostic teachings, I tend to think of him as more of a deluded power seeker, we can arguably see this in the Nag Hammadi text attributed or more than likely dedicated to Paul:

... your light, give me your mercy! My Redeemer, redeem me, for I am yours; the one who has come forth from you. You are my mind; bring me forth! You are my treasure house; open for me! You are my fullness; take me to you! You are (my) repose; give me the perfect thing that cannot be grasped!


I invoke you, the one who is and who pre-existed in the name which is exalted above every name, through Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords, the King of the ages; give me your gifts, of which you do not repent, through the Son of Man, the Spirit, the Paraclete of truth. Give me authority when I ask you; give healing for my body when I ask you through the Evangelist, and redeem my eternal light soul and my spirit. And the First-born of the Pleroma of grace -- reveal him to my mind!


Grant what no angel eye has seen and no archon ear (has) heard, and what has not entered into the human heart which came to be angelic and (modelled) after the image of the psychic God when it was formed in the beginning, since I have faith and hope. And place upon me your beloved, elect, and blessed greatness, the First-born, the First-begotten, and the wonderful mystery of your house; for yours is the power and the glory and the praise and the greatness for ever and ever. Amen.

The Prayer of the Apostle Paul -- The Nag Hammadi Library

This of course differs between those who think they need to manipulate things in order to participate in God's will and those that seek to submit. These are the two differing "forces" within Christianity, even protestantism and Catholicism, not just Gnosticism. For example one could argue, quite accuratly that the vast majority of western "occultists" have actually been Christians, until the past 50 years....although this is probably still ture.

My views on Paul? The jury is out, but what I do know......It is not Paul that is the Christ.

Here is something from a catholic Nun who "hates" the holy spirit...

Lord Jesus Christ, I pray that you may fortify me with the grace of your Holy Spirit, and give your peace to my soul, that I may be free from all needless anxiety and worry. Help me to desire always that which is pleasing and acceptable to you, so that your will may be my will.

Grant that I may be free from unholy desires, and that , for your love, I may remain obscure and unknown in this world, to be known only to you.

Do not permit me to attribute to myself the good that you perform in me and through me, but rather, referring all honor to you, may I admit only to my infirmities, so that renouncing sincerely all vainglory which comes from the world, I may aspire to that true and lasting glory that comes from you.

Amen

–St. Frances Cabrini
St. Frances Xavier Cabrini - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online

 

[Heneni]

+
If you want to discuss christianity, and the themes discussed here:
ie died for our sins, who is saved, who is chosen, who is going to hell, who will go to venus etc. I humbly suggest you at least learn a little about calvinism..... as it really is a fundamental part of a large part of protestantism.... and tulip...

I would be the first to say that studying other people's notes on the bible could be usefull. But again, there is no gaurentee that any man has the correct doctrine. The only person in my opinion that has the correct doctrine is the spirit of god, the HS. I dont get it right always, but he does. The trick is to spot the truth when you see it or when you hear it. I would not point you to calvanism and more than i would point you to myself.

I have read the works of many people and i have come to learn to rely and that small inner voice that kind a goes :yes: when i hear truth and when i dont. Its taken a few years but im getting better at hearing properly.

Heneni

 

[sojourner]

Where do you get the notion from that we created death? If we created it we can uncreate it.

And how is death a creation?

"Created" is probably not the best term. According to Genesis, when we ate of the tree, we brought death upon ourselves.

 

[sojourner]

im sure that many of the questions the folk had was answered by paul and i think they rather had more answers than less.

Don't kid yourself.

 

[sojourner]

The controlling card of catholics is that they believe that the pope is the only one who can correctly interpret the doctrine and therefore they have cut out the HS in that process all together!

Wrong. The Bishop of Rome is not the only one who can "interpret doctrine." Plus,
The H.S. is conferred upon baptism. The Pope is certainly baptized.

 

[sojourner]

The great thing about chirstians (Born again chirstians) is this. One christian can quickly spot another. Deep calls to deep. Spirits of the same kind, recognise each other, and can identify other spirits that are not of the same kind. Help when you are trying to sort out truth from fiction as well.

First of all, all Christians are born again. This is a misnomer invented by the fundigelicals to indicate a false distinction between themselves and other Christians. Second, I'd be willing to bet that I could show you any number of atheists whom you would mistake for Christians -- and plenty of Christians whom you could mistake for atheists (provided religion was not discussed).
The Spirit blows where it will. IMO, there are some who have not recognized the presence of Spirit and have become confused as to whose they are and under whose persuasion they act.

 

[sojourner]

making it arguably like tennis without balls....

Probably in more ways than one...

 

[sojourner]

Have heard of calvanism, havent studied it in depth and as far as transbustantiation is concerned its a catholic doctrine. Um...dont believe in that either.

So do you think as a gnostic man, that paul had it together?

[FONT=&quot]“Beginning in the ancient Church, Christians moved to a highly literal understanding of the words, ‘This is my Body’ and ‘This is my Blood.’”[FONT=&quot][/FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT] Osborn, Ronald; The Faith We Affirm; 1979, Chalice Press, St. Louis, MO; pg. 61


*Ron Osborn was an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), and Moderator of that denomination in 1968.


[FONT=&quot]I submit that it cannot be merely bread and wine on this Table. We’re not “Breadonians.” We’re not “Winoskies.” We are Christians. [/FONT]Therefore, it must be that it is Christ who is present on this Table, and that – in some real, yet mysterious way, it is his flesh and blood that we consume.


[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Heneni]

Probably in more ways than one...

You really need to learn how to multiquote. You could have said all of that in one post. Gives you more time for :golf:

 

[sojourner]

The only person in my opinion that has the correct doctrine is the spirit of god, the HS.

The Holy Spirit does not need doctrine. Doctrine is a human contrivance that we use in order to formulate and standardize theology, which is our understanding of God. Since God fully understands God's Self, I find it preposterous that God would have need of doctrine.

 

[Mr Cheese]

The Holy Spirit does not need doctrine. Doctrine is a human contrivance that we use in order to formulate and standardize theology, which is our understanding of God. Since God fully understands God's Self, I find it preposterous that God would have need of doctrine.

God needs doctrine so that the angels know which kitten is worthy of being saved from car wheels....:yes:

 

[Heneni]

The Holy Spirit does not need doctrine. Doctrine is a human contrivance that we use in order to formulate and standardize theology, which is our understanding of God. Since God fully understands God's Self, I find it preposterous that God would have need of doctrine.

Fumbling over words sojourner. I didnt say that the HS needed doctrine. He is the correct doctrine. Because he is god.

You like to nit pick dont ya?

Just watch out for the camel. :giraffe: (closest i could get)

 

[Freelancer7]

The Honest question is how do you feed and fill the belly of 5000 so they are full up, 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and two fish???? One thing is, the fish could havee been whales, as mammals and fishes would not have been seperated back then. How do we know there was not sucha thing as a party loaf back then??? or do you think there is some other way????

 

[Mr Cheese]

The Honest question is how do you feed and fill the belly of 5000 so they are full up, 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and two fish???? One thing is, the fish could havee been whales, as mammals and fishes would not have been seperated back then. How do we know there was not sucha thing as a party loaf back then??? or do you think there is some other way????

maybe they all ate Jello, as Jello was really bread back then?

 

[Freelancer7]

maybe they all ate Jello, as Jello was really bread back then?

I suppose It could have been two eels not fish to make the jellyy..haha..hehe the bread was money, fill any bodies belly we see that within goverment circles now..hehehahaha

 

[sojourner]

You really need to learn how to multiquote. You could have said all of that in one post. Gives you more time for :golf:

I'd rather :spam:
up the thread than
:golf:
because I'm too
:grill:
to
:computer:
which is just
:super:
The end.

 

[sojourner]

Fumbling over words sojourner. I didnt say that the HS needed doctrine. He is the correct doctrine. Because he is god.

You like to nit pick dont ya?

Just watch out for the camel. :giraffe: (closest i could get)

You said:

The only person in my opinion that has the correct doctrine is the spirit of god, the HS. I dont get it right always, but he does.

If you'd like to change your statement, fine by me.

(BTW,
Your camel is missing a heemp)