Discussion of the Secret Book of John

[ChrisP]

Agreed, you cannot label someone as wise without an ignorant person to compare too.

But i think the whole moral of the story is that misunderstood wisdom leads to ignorance.

More about what wisdom really is? "True Wisdom presents itself" me woulda thunk?

 

[Halcyon]

More about what wisdom really is? "True Wisdom presents itself" me woulda thunk?

Me woulda thunk that too, but apparently not. Some people (well most) seem to prefer their fairy tale existance to less reassuring views.

 

[Buttons*]

Ok, all these numbers and things are confusing my pea-brain

thats because i'm an idiot :bonk: The numbers probably dont have anything to do with anything at all....

So the self birthed "not quite as bright" is aware whereas the entity from which he was birthed is not? Or is it the awareness of the Tao/gnosis?

...are you talking about the divine child at this point?

I have a problem with the greater being part of the lesser, as this would in essence make it self aware, which is where it all falls down. Completely Benign things cannot be selfaware, as this would mean motives would suddenly arise for advancement of the self.

the Source does not want, need, or desire anything.

Like... you are aware that you have a soul/spirit-thingy... right? You're aware of this because you have a mind. (heart/mind, whatever) Well, that is the source. Does the heart/mind desire/think? Not the way we do.

What gives us ideas?
The things that come from the One are what our ideas and thoughts come from. However, the Source doesn't think, or have a "mind" as we know it... those aforenamed traits are properties of itself.

... if that didnt help at all, then just ignore it...

It's just occured to me that the lesser being part of the greater is of no consequence as all things are part of the greater, but that said we have no influence over the greater. Does the lesser? If so it begins to make things a little tangled.

The anointed child never influenced the One... It asked the one for certian things, it just is trying to show how the Source is at the root of all things... thoughts are not the Source, but they are products of it...

Regarding the luminaries, the 12 who stand before the lesser are the divided parts of the 4 who stand before the greater? That makes sense to a certain degree, but why are we dividing 4 concepts into 12 human traits? This is taking the concept of divinity into the realm of the human.

no, the luminaries are just over-seeing those traits. They are not divided into 12, twelve are divided amongst the 4. The reason that human rationale is brought in is so people can split it up, and focus on one at a time. I'm not sure why they are grouped up the way they are... but maybe numbers hold special meaning in Gnostic thought? (as well as the majority of religions)

.... i'll work on this more later... prepare for edit!

 

[Halcyon]

Like... you are aware that you have a soul/spirit-thingy... right? You're aware of this because you have a mind. (heart/mind, whatever) Well, that is the source. Does the heart/mind desire/think? Not the way we do.

What gives us ideas?
The things that come from the One are what our ideas and thoughts come from. However, the Source doesn't think, or have a "mind" as we know it... those aforenamed traits are properties of itself.

I think the word i'm looking for here is... exquisite. :clap

 

[ChrisP]

I think the word i'm looking for here is... exquisite. :clap

You're just saying that cos she has cupcakes

The things that come from the One are what our ideas and thoughts come from. However, the Source doesn't think, or have a "mind" as we know it... those aforenamed traits are properties of itself.

OK, you know I suck at explaining so here's my fav. book on the subject:

(beware the unchanging bit and the other adjectives, that's all kinda relative to the whole book)

Chapter 25 TTC Stephen Mitchell translation:

There was something formless and perfect
before the Universe was born.
It is serene. Empty.
Solitary. Unchanging.
Infinite. Eternally Present
It is the mother of the Universe.
For lack of a better name,
I call it the Tao.
.
.
.
. (continues to)

Man follows the earth
Earth follows the Universe
The Universe follows the Tao
The Tao follows only itself.

(Emphasis mine)


There's another translation not often in use except for the odd quote like this gem:

Chapter 28

.
.
.
.
The block of wood is carved into utensils
by carving void into the wood.
The Master uses the utensils, yet prefers to keep to the block
because of its limitless possibilities.
Great works do not involve discarding substance.

Again emphasis mine.

I'm not sure how to explain that... in under 20,000 words anyway so hopefully the image of the block will be good enough?

 

[A. Leaf]

when the saviour had finished speaking these words unto his disciples, that Mary answered and said unto Jesus,' My Lord, Ihave heard thee say, 'He who shall receive of the mysteries of the ineffable or who shall receive of the mysteries of the first mystery, they become flames of light-beams and light-streams and penetrate all the regions untill they reach the region of their inheritance'.
The saviour answered and said unto Mary: 'If they receive the mystery when still in life, and if they come out of the body, theu become light-beams and light-streams and penetrate all the regions untill they reach the region of their inheritance.
'But if they are sinners and come out of the body and have not repented, and if ye peform for them the mystery of the Infeffable, in order that they may be removed out of all chastisement and be cast into a righteous body, which is good and inheriteth the Light-Kingdom or is brought into the last order of light, then they will not be able to penetrate the regions, because they do not peform the mystery (themselves). But the receivers of Melchizidek follow them and lead them before the virgin of light.

It is an expicit statement from Jesus that souls of the deceased turn into light rays.

 

[A. Leaf]

From a personal point of view: Light-Ray = Soul = Intelligent Energy

Soul; Intillectual Energy: Oxford Consice Dictionary Tenth Edition 2001.

 

[Buttons*]

when the saviour had finished speaking these words unto his disciples, that Mary answered and said unto Jesus,' My Lord, Ihave heard thee say, 'He who shall receive of the mysteries of the ineffable or who shall receive of the mysteries of the first mystery, they become flames of light-beams and light-streams and penetrate all the regions untill they reach the region of their inheritance'.
The saviour answered and said unto Mary: 'If they receive the mystery when still in life, and if they come out of the body, theu become light-beams and light-streams and penetrate all the regions untill they reach the region of their inheritance.
'But if they are sinners and come out of the body and have not repented, and if ye peform for them the mystery of the Infeffable, in order that they may be removed out of all chastisement and be cast into a righteous body, which is good and inheriteth the Light-Kingdom or is brought into the last order of light, then they will not be able to penetrate the regions, because they do not peform the mystery (themselves). But the receivers of Melchizidek follow them and lead them before the virgin of light.

It is an expicit statement from Jesus that souls of the deceased turn into light rays.

... where in the Secret Book of John is this?

 

[Buttons*]

You're just saying that cos she has cupcakes

most likely, he IS a guy after all

OK, you know I suck at explaining so here's my fav. book on the subject:
.
The block of wood is carved into utensils
by carving void into the wood.
The Master uses the utensils, yet prefers to keep to the block
because of its limitless possibilities.
Great works do not involve discarding substance.

Again emphasis mine.

I'm not sure how to explain that... in under 20,000 words anyway so hopefully the image of the block will be good enough?

*nods* works for me

 

[A. Leaf]

Buttons, my soul sister, that is actually a quote from a book called the 'Crystal Lens' by Robert Temple.

 

[A. Leaf]

Buttons, my soul sister, that is actually a quote from a book called the 'Crystal Lens' by Robert Temple.

 

[Buttons*]

Buttons, my soul sister, that is actually a quote from a book called the 'Crystal Lens' by Robert Temple.

cool .... what does it have to do with John?

 

[A. Leaf]

oh, dont worry for now buttons, it's a long story.

 

[Buttons*]

oh, dont worry for now buttons, it's a long story.

*shifty glance* ..... okay, but it had better not involve cupcakes of any sort....

 

[ChrisP]

*shifty glance* ..... okay, but it had better not involve cupcakes of any sort....

We got you on the run

 

[A. Leaf]

Cupcakes?

 

[ChrisP]

Cupcakes?

Long story short, cupcakes are secretly taking over the world... they got sick of being eaten and now we're on the menu!

 

[Buttons*]

We got you on the run

guess its time for me to post more from the book..... it'll be up probably tomorrow.... happiness!

 

[A. Leaf]

Lookin 4ward to it buttons be good till then

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Ok, back on topic. Are we talking about numbers? They are definitely significant, but I don't get them either. But some people use that part of their brain more and might see the message quite clearly. 3 is important, as is 4, and 7 and 12. These numbers repeat themselves throughout all religions, and beliefs, and science.

Now, as for the illuminaries and such. I have come to see that the connection with God, or the seperation of him is felt, as emotions. I do not mean the immediate emotional response to your environment, but your base of emotions. How you feel at your core is like a spiritual barameter. Different emotions cause different vibrational levels, which effect your physical well being and such. But, not to get of the subject. This whole part of our study is based on our creation, how we came to be, and I don't think we should get all caught up in the details so much as to see that John was shown a specific aspect of our own creation, the importance of emotions is the basic message. Every emotion was given it's own manifestation. Every emotion has the potential to be harmful or helpful.

*passes talking stick*