Do any Christians disagree with this...

[Zhakir]

People growing up with the bible , don't really believe in it, there isn't a single human being today who believe in it's errors. but refuse to admit it'snot god's many become atheist or agnostics,many convert to islam.in usa According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified themselves as christian down from 86.4% in 1990.[

 

[Zhakir]

againe Here is Quran,bible,vedas ,atheism
god wanted it to be a one's personal choice
we all who knew this message have te same chance

 

[Draka]

Zhakir, you're full of it. If everyone had an equal chance to believe in Islam then everyone would be presented with its beliefs and tenets from a very early age, right along with every other religion on the face of the planet...to make it EQUAL (a word I don't think you really understand). However that is not the case is it? Put it this way, before I came to this forum I had never been exposed to any information about Islam, let alone personally talk with someone who is Muslim. Therefore, I have not had an EQUAL chance to be Muslim, and I still don't as I am simply not as exposed to it as I am other religions in order to gain knowledge about it and make a determination as to whether it makes more sense to me than those other religions I do have knowledge about. I can't just simply CHOOSE to believe in something when i don't know all the facts about it just because someone says it is right. Belief just doesn't work that way. I could no more CHOOSE to believe in Islam because you say it is right than you could just CHOOSE to believe in Wicca just because I say it is right. One must have information. Not everyone has information about every religion...no matter how you want to believe everyone knows enough about yours to just drop everything else they know and believe in it. Hence, if I were to die right now I will have died without an equal chance to believe in Islam as compared to Christianity or Wicca or other forms of Paganism I have been exposed to. And had I died BEFORE coming to RF I would have had NO chance of becoming Muslim as I had NO knowledge or experience of it whatsoever.

Your argument falls flat. As does the flip version of it from some Christians here.

 

[HoldemDB9]

People growing up with the bible , don't really believe in it, there isn't a single human being today who believe in it's errors.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa#cite_note-ARIS-139

You will have to clarify exactly what it is you are saying here. Surely you are not saying that there is nobody on the planet who believes the Bible, this is not what you are saying is it?

Please clarify.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Every person will ultimately be without excuse, but if everyone were to be judged on the basis of what they knew when they died and condemned for not accepting something they had never heard taught, they would be very much without excuse.

I think you've made some very good points here.

In my mind, the whole "unbelievers are without excuse, therefore it's fine for tons of people to go to Hell" line strikes me as incompatible with the idea of God as a loving father for humanity.

I look at it this way:

Suzie runs into the house yelling, "Pa! Pa! Timmy's fallen down the well!"

Pa replies, "well, I told Timmy not to play near the well. It's his own darn fault. Leave him there."

Even if Pa did tell Timmy not to play near the well and even if it is Timmy's fault that he fell in, is this how a loving parent would behave? I don't think it is.

I think that the Mormon position is a bit more logically consistent than many other Christian denominations in this regard: to me, an all-powerful God trying His darndest to save as many people as He can is not compatible with the idea that only a select few would be saved. IMO, that says that either God isn't really trying or that God's a pretty darn ineffective god. Neither prospect sits well with most Christian theology.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I think you've made some very good points here.

In my mind, the whole "unbelievers are without excuse, therefore it's fine for tons of people to go to Hell" line strikes me as incompatible with the idea of God as a loving father for humanity.

I look at it this way:

Suzie runs into the house yelling, "Pa! Pa! Timmy's fallen down the well!"

Pa replies, "well, I told Timmy not to play near the well. It's his own darn fault. Leave him there."

Even if Pa did tell Timmy not to play near the well and even if it is Timmy's fault that he fell in, is this how a loving parent would behave? I don't think it is.

I think that the Mormon position is a bit more logically consistent than many other Christian denominations in this regard: to me, an all-powerful God trying His darndest to save as many people as He can is not compatible with the idea that only a select few would be saved. IMO, that says that either God isn't really trying or that God's a pretty darn ineffective god. Neither prospect sits well with most Christian theology.

We'll find out May 21st 2011
Not to sound silly, but I believe that will be the day.

Your points are right on though, logically speaking we can make God into whatever we think he should be, and the "pa, pa" reference is correct. Anyone denying that, I dunno is just off their rocker.

 

[HoldemDB9]

We'll find out May 21st 2011
Not to sound silly, but I believe that will be the day.

Your points are right on though, logically speaking we can make God into whatever we think he should be, and the "pa, pa" reference is correct. Anyone denying that, I dunno is just off their rocker.

Can I ask, what exactly is happening on May 21st? That's not too far from now.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Can I ask, what exactly is happening on May 21st? That's not too far from now.

SO FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the tagline of ENOCH. I know that isn't very christian of me, but wow what a character huh?

Judgement day will begin on May 21st 2011 and end on October 21st 2011. You are right it is not far away. I am not just another person high on crack or giddy dreams about God.
I simply read something that changed the course of my thinking.
As someone pointed out on another post that Harold Camping of Family Radio is predicting May21st 2011, I heard that and was like ***?

So I had listened to the guy before and he knows the bible better than anyone I have ever listened too, so I had some scholarly respect for him, but when I heard this I was like dang, there goes another good person to learn from.

So I decided to look into his works on the subject, and very shortly into it I realized there was something too what he was saying. I was like holy crap this guy isn't painting fairy tales, he is saying some serious stuff. So I set out to disprove this teaching because I just couldn't believe it. No matter how hard I tried, I just could get over the overwhelming amount of information this guy has on the bible.

you know there are those who can weave the bible together for their own gain, but this guy is different. (Yes still a human) but I mean he weaves the bible together like something out of this world. So anyway months and months later I am fully convinced this is going to happen, and yet I still look for information that maybe I am missing.

My wife thinks I am nuts, and thinks I worship Harold, well I don't. I set out to disprove him, and the fact is when you are staring truth in the face, you can't deny it. So what am I to do?

 

[whatistruth07]

“God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.”—ACTS 10:34, 35. Remember that Gods cardinal quality is Love infact it saysGod Is Love. Therefore we can be sure that God knows the hearts of all people. Jesus also said no one comes to the me unless the father draws him.

As for this 2011 that Tv Prophetic preachers are debating about , let us return to what the founder of our faith said "Matthew 24:36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. Let us not go beyond scripture.

 

[Zhakir]

You will have to clarify exactly what it is you are saying here. Surely you are not saying that there is nobody on the planet who believes the Bible, this is not what you are saying is it?

Please clarify.

Does any body in the 21st century,christian,jew,or anything believes in the bible scientific errors?!

 

[HoldemDB9]

Does any body in the 21st century,christian,jew,or anything believes in the bible scientific errors?!

I asked you to please clarify what you meant by your last post, and you did not.

So I will kindly ask again, please clarify. Are you saying that there is no body on the planet who believes the Bible? Yes or no? Simple question.

Why your at it, please answer this. Would you take this bet? We pick 100 babies who are born in America and we follow them through life, for everyone that becomes Christian you give me $100 and for everyone that becomes Muslim I give you $300. You should take this bet since you believe that people born in America are not more likely to become Christian than Muslim. Yes or no, simple question, would you take this bet? Just answer with a yes or a no please. Ill say it one more time since I know how far people go to avoid questions like this, yes or no, would you take this bet?

 

[Zhakir]

So I will kindly ask again, please clarify. Are you saying that there is no body on the planet who believes the Bible? Yes or no? Simple question.

No

Why your at it, please answer this. Would you take this bet? We pick 100 babies who are born in America and we follow them through life, for everyone that becomes Christian you give me $100 and for everyone that becomes Muslim I give you $300. You should take this bet since you believe that people born in America are not more likely to become Christian than Muslim. Yes or no, simple question, would you take this bet? Just answer with a yes or a no please. Ill say it one more time since I know how far people go to avoid questions like this, yes or no, would you take this bet?

No
Quran 6:125
Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He make their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

 

[HoldemDB9]

No

Ok, so now do you accept that people brought up with the Bible are more likely to become Christian and people brought up with the Quran are more likely to become Muslim?

No
Quran 6:125
Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He make their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.

Why wouldn't you take the bet Zhakir, be honest now. Is it because most of the babies would become Christian and you would lose a lot of money?

 

[Zhakir]

Ok, so now do you accept that people brought up with the Bible are more likely to become Christian and people brought up with the Quran are more likely to become Muslim?



Why wouldn't you take the bet Zhakir, be honest now. Is it because most of the babies would become Christian and you would lose a lot of money?

* Yet you can't convince me that any christian,believes the earth is flat or doesn't move etc. can you?

*About that bet,the reason i said no was "i believe in that verse i quoted.
Not what you think
you will find many converted believe me.in USA According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified themselves as christian down from 86.4% in 1990.And you know that th fastest growing religion in USA is islam in Allah alone knows the number of converts later.
48:28
It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religions ; and Allah is enough for a witness.

in that bet you may lose alot of money

 

[HoldemDB9]

* Yet you can't convince me that any christian,believes the earth is flat or doesn't move etc. can you?

What on earth are you talking about? Just answer that question for a second, what on earth are you talking about? Why do I always get people like you to debate with. Will you just answer the God dam question: Do you accept that people brought up with the Bible are more likely to become Christian and people brought up with the Quran are more likely to become Muslim? Yes or no, just answer please.

*About that bet,the reason i said no was "i believe in that verse i quoted.
Not what think
you will find many converted believe me.in USA According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified themselves as christian down from 86.4% in 1990.And you know that th fastest growing religion in USA is islam in Allah alone knows the number of converts later.
48:28
It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religions ; and Allah is enough for a witness.

in that bet you may lose alot of money

In what bet may I lose a lot of money? Again, what on earth are you talking about? Are you drunk or something? Ill ask you again, why wouldn't you take the bet?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And you know that th fastest growing religion in USA is islam ...

Therefore?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

* Yet you can't convince me that any christian,believes the earth is flat or doesn't move etc. can you?

You can probably find about the same number of Muslims who believe that the Sun has a setting-place and rising-place on Earth, as described in Chapter 18 of the Quran.

 

[Draka]

And you know that th fastest growing religion in USA is islam in Allah alone knows the number of converts later.

And you know that is a lie fueled by propaganda right? Percentage wise, that is simply not the case. And do you know how many religions claim that? If a religion has a large base of numbers but has a small percentage of growth and another religion has a small base of numbers but has a large percentage of growth, then for a while, the religion with a large base of number will appear to be growing very fast, but in reality the smaller religion is the faster growing one. Islam has a very small percentage of growth when compared to just about any Pagan religion. Did you know that? So you might want to check your figures again and do some math.

Oh, and I love how my previous post was completely ignored by you because it proved you wrong. Nice ignoring there. Wouldn't want you to deal with facts and logic now would we? Which is probably why this post will also be ignored.

 

[Draka]

What I feel like in this thread:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And you know that is a lie fueled by propaganda right? Percentage wise, that is simply not the case. And do you know how many religions claim that? If a religion has a large base of numbers but has a small percentage of growth and another religion has a small base of numbers but has a large percentage of growth, then for a while, the religion with a large base of number will appear to be growing very fast, but in reality the smaller religion is the faster growing one. Islam has a very small percentage of growth when compared to just about any Pagan religion. Did you know that? So you might want to check your figures again and do some math.

And I bet if you measure growth in terms of average weight of its adherents, Islam and Paganism don't have anything on the Holy Church of Pie.