Do "Believers" really believe?

[LogDog]

No, not whatever.... you assert yourself to be intellectually superior to us simple-minded religious folk. You should at least get your facts straight.

"Rumi teachings expressed that love is the path to spiritual growth and insight."

You might want to get in touch with these guys http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/turkey/konya.htm, http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/about_odes.html, http://www.amazon.com/Teachings-Rumi-Andrew-Harvey/dp/1570623465 and correct their language too.

 

[Green Gaia]

"Rumi teachings expressed that love is the path to spiritual growth and insight."

You might want to get in touch with these guys http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/turkey/konya.htm, http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/about_odes.html, http://www.amazon.com/Teachings-Rumi-Andrew-Harvey/dp/1570623465 and correct their language too.

People may view him as a teacher, but the simple fact remains that he was a poet.

Nice try at a deflection of the issue of your obvious contempt for most everyone on this forum, however. Did you come here to save us?

 

[LogDog]

People may view him as a teacher, but the simple fact remains that he was a poet.

Nice try at a deflection of the issue of your obvious contempt for most everyone on this forum, however. Did you come here to save us?

Nice deflection of your attempt to convince everyone Rumi was simply a poet.

Save you? Haven't you already been saved?

 

[Green Gaia]

Save you? Haven't you already been saved?

And what do you think I've been saved from?

 

[LogDog]

And what do you think I've been saved from?

From spending eternity in "hell" of course?

 

[Green Gaia]

From spending eternity in "hell" of course?

:biglaugh:

UUs don't believe in eternal damnation, or "hell" as it's commonly called. I thought you knew everything about religion? How could you not know that?

 

[SoyLeche]

:biglaugh:

UUs don't believe in eternal damnation, or "hell" as it's commonly called. I thought you knew everything about religion? How could you not know that?

I was under the impression that UUs could essentially believe whatever they wanted, so that theoretically some might believe in eternal damnation. I could be wrong though.

 

[Booko]

Science is based on the observation that the universe is governed by natural laws that can be discerned through repeatable experiments. Science serves as a reliable, rational basis for predictions.

For physical matters, of course. For the rest of life, it does a lousy job.

Can you tell me which volume of Bielstein's Handbuch I should be looking in to predict how well a romantic relationship works out? My German for chemistry is pretty rusty after all these years. Maybe I've missed that part.

If you wish to deal with life using bad reductions, that's your problem. You probably shouldn't expect me to think I must follow suit.

...making the selection of a single specific religion seemingly arbitrary.

Who said there was any need to select a single one?

If only common sense were more common.

Indeed.

 

[UnTheist]

I think that my answer to that question will be quite obvious given my faith. Other people of other faiths will answer differently, but the point I was trying to tersely make (and which you clearly seem not to have grasped) is that for millions of people God has indeed revealed Himself and so that common plea on the part of some atheists is ridiculous. The fact is that many of those who call for such a thing wouldn't believe even if they were a witness to, say, the miracles of Christ. I've had them say as much to me. All that particular plea is is a wish that God would reveal Himself to you because you are unwilling to believe things unless you see them with your own eyes, and yet I must ask, if you saw a miracle with your own eyes, would you not instantly try to deny it? If not, may I suggest that you visit the Church of the Holy Sepulchre this Pascha?

James

Unlilke other people, I would not deny it if He really came to me. I understood what you meant. But if God decides to show Himself to some people and not others, that is His fault, not mine.

 

[Green Gaia]

I was under the impression that UUs could essentially believe whatever they wanted, so that theoretically some might believe in eternal damnation. I could be wrong though.

I challenge you to find me one that believes in eternal damnation in the mainstream Christian sense. We did come from the Universalist movement in Christianity which denied eternal damnation.

And no, we can't believe whatever we want. For example, I cannot believe that people of different racial backgrounds are inferior to me.

 

[LogDog]

:biglaugh:

UUs don't believe in eternal damnation, or "hell" as it's commonly called. I thought you knew everything about religion? How could you not know that?

I knew it.

Okay. You'll be saved from wherever it is your religion says you'll go after death if you don't have faith.

That said, there's little doubt in my mind that you'll find some way to counter even this statement.

 

[UnTheist]

This is the same regurgitating babble that is always used. Theist attach meaning to something and it's labeled a delusion. I often wonder if people really believe this or if it's just something they enjoy spewing out to justify their own conclusions/feelings about it.

Yes. Since we don't understand 80% of the brain, it may just be activity of the brain. It isn't 'babble' at all. I would really like it if God stopped picking and choosing who He shows himself to.

 

[SoyLeche]

I challenge you to find me one that believes in eternal damnation in the mainstream Christian sense. We did come from the Universalist movement in Christianity which denied eternal damnation.

And no, we can't believe whatever we want. For example, I cannot believe that people of different racial backgrounds are inferior to me.

I won't deny that I probably can't find one, but theoretically one could exist. That's all I was getting at

 

[LogDog]

:biglaugh:

UUs don't believe in eternal damnation, or "hell" as it's commonly called. I thought you knew everything about religion? How could you not know that?

I went back through the entire thread and nowhere did I find a statement of mine that states I know everything about religion.

 

[Green Gaia]

Okay. You'll be saved from wherever it is your religion says you'll go after death if you don't have faith.

My religion makes no judgement about what happens after death. The general consenus is though that nothing happens, at least nothing that we need to worry about being "saved" from as that term is generally thought of.

So, back to my orginial question, which obviously I need to reword since you didn't understand it: did you come here to save us our religions? And if so, what makes you any different than the proselytizing evangelical Christian who's here to convert us to his way of thinking?

 

[Green Gaia]

I won't deny that I probably can't find one, but theoretically one could exist. That's all I was getting at

Theoretically, but that viewpoint is not the consensus of most UUs.

 

[Green Gaia]

I went back through the entire thread and nowhere did I find a statement of mine that states I know everything about religion.

Well, how can you condemn something and have such obvious contempt and hatred for it and the people who follow it, if you haven't studied it indepth and know the ends and outs of every religion since you're blanketing all religious beliefs together?

 

[LogDog]

My religion makes no judgement about what happens after death. The general consenus is though that nothing happens, at least nothing that we need to worry about being "saved" from as that term is generally thought of.

So, back to my orginial question, which obviously I need to reword since you didn't understand it: did you come here to save us our religions? And if so, what makes you any different than the proselytizing evangelical Christian who's here to convert us to his way of thinking?

Does this not answer your question? Posted a few pages back.

A number of you have asked why I and other atheists won't leave well enough alone, accept the fact that religion "is" and let believers believe. To that I will say it is religions impediment of the unrestrained progression of mankind that will compel some to be vocal in their opposition for its advancement and to question its irrational foundation.

 

[SoyLeche]

Does this not answer your question? Posted a few pages back.

A number of you have asked why I and other atheists won't leave well enough alone, accept the fact that religion "is" and let believers believe. To that I will say it is religions impediment of the unrestrained progression of mankind that will compel some to be vocal in their opposition for its advancement and to question its irrational foundation.

Yeah, religion didn't let us get this far, so it will obviously stop us from going any further

 

[Quiddity]

Yes. Since we don't understand 80% of the brain, it may just be activity of the brain. It isn't 'babble' at all. I would really like it if God stopped picking and choosing who He shows himself to.

I haven't seen Him. Nor do I have to, to extend belief. Typically, the non-theist looks at reality only (or primarily) from the empirical plane. You may no longer believe in miracles or revelation, but we do, so your countering thoughts should at least take that into consideration for the sake of argument. Attaching meaning is a normative human action. I just place meaning on different things then you do.