Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[waitasec]

This is the definition of condone I'm using: approve or sanction (something), esp. with reluctance
or
accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue

One can accept something, and at the same time not condone it. I don't approve of smoking and underage drinking. That doesn't mean that I don't accept my brother though.

The second definition, I think, makes it quite easy. Condoning is two parts. First, the act has to be accepted. The second part is allowing the act to continue. I accept that my brother smokes and drinks underage. I don't allow it to happen though (as in, I don't allow him to smoke in my property (car, house, etc). I don't buy him alcohol, I don't offer him alcohol, etc. If he's drinking, it's not in my control).

We can use this with the topic of homosexuality. This is now hypothetical, as I'm not voicing my beliefs here. I could accept a homosexual as they are. But that does not mean that I approve of who they sleep with. Or, I can accept that they are homosexual, but not allow that person to have sex in my home. On a side note, this can even stretch to heterosexual people. I can accept that my brother is having sex, but that does not I approve of who he is having sex with.

Really, the two, accepting someone, but not condoning what they do, can go hand in hand.

Basically, I think it's coming down to either you are for us, and believe everything we say. Or you're against us because you're a hateful bigot. Deny one of us, you're a bigot.

the difference is choice...
you may accept your friends but do not condone their behavior
sure fine but if
i do not condone the color of your skin or your heritage, their is no choice there. this is who you are. this is bigotry.

 

[ChristineES]

My definition of bigotry is hating a person for some superficial reason; I don't think that not accepting something about a person is bigotry. I am an incredibly shy and introverted person, if someone said to me that they do not accept this quality but they still like me as a person and are still my friend then I don't think it qualifies as bigotry. Another thing- being shy and introverted isn't everything that I am. I have hundreds, if not thousands of qualities, both good and bad.

 

[waitasec]

I think you misread her statement. She was saying that it, in her opinion, was discrimination, but she didn't believe that it was extreme persecution. But as I said, I can't interpret someone else statements.
Whether I agree with her or not, I can't say. I am not gay and I have never experienced any discrimination outside of the time when I was a woman in the Navy (more than 20 years ago, the Navy has changed since for the better, I heard). I was called a racial expletive once by a little girl (the s word for latinos) (I am 1/2 native American not latino, but let's not get into details). That girl's family was always giving me dirty looks and stuff, but I just ignored them.

well then if you've tasted a fraction of what a homosexual goes thru
maybe you should understand and see it with clearer vision then those who never experienced such an awful thing.
you are who you are. no one is better than you and you are no better than anyone. being looked down upon is bigotry and all the candy coated words will not change the fact that persecution is prevalent here in the states.

 

[ChristineES]

well then if you've tasted a fraction of what a homosexual goes thru
maybe you should understand and see it with clearer vision then those who never experienced such an awful thing.
you are who you are. no one is better than you and you are no better than anyone. being looked down upon is bigotry and all the candy coated words will not change the fact that persecution is prevalent here in the states.

Well, it is true that there is a lot of discrimination against gays here in the USA. But I still don't think that it is always bigotry to not accept one thing about a person. But we can agree to disagree. I am out of arguments.

 

[waitasec]

My definition of bigotry is hating a person for some superficial reason; I don't think that not accepting something about a person is bigotry. I am an incredibly shy and introverted person, if someone said to me that they do not accept this quality but they still like me as a person and are still my friend then I don't think it qualifies as bigotry. Another thing- being shy and introverted isn't everything that I am. I have hundreds, if not thousands of qualities, both good and bad.

being judged because of your shyness is a quality that was made from choice
being judged because you're a woman or the color of your skin is not the same thing

 

[fallingblood]

the difference is choice...
you may accept your friends but do not condone their behavior
sure fine but if
i do not condone the color of your skin or your heritage, their is no choice there. this is who you are. this is bigotry.

No it's not. You're throwing the word bigotry around too willy nilly. Someone disagrees with you, and suddenly, they are a bigot. That is not acceptable.

 

[fallingblood]

being judged because of your shyness is a quality that was made from choice
being judged because you're a woman or the color of your skin is not the same thing

Being shy is not a choice.

 

[fallingblood]

well then if you've tasted a fraction of what a homosexual goes thru
maybe you should understand and see it with clearer vision then those who never experienced such an awful thing.
you are who you are. no one is better than you and you are no better than anyone. being looked down upon is bigotry and all the candy coated words will not change the fact that persecution is prevalent here in the states.

So is it coming down to the idea that you've undergone more, so you can define what a bigot is? Honestly, I don't see how you get off even trying to belittle the hatred or even mistreatment of another simply because you've supposedly gone through more.

As you said, you are who you are. But you're not even accepting that.

 

[Nerthus]

I believe people should push for equality and liberty for all. But this doesn't happen overnight - and people have the right to oppose.

Yeah, I guess you could also say that people have the right to oppose women being treated as equals, people of different races.

 

[dawny0826]

Yeah, I guess you could also say that people have the right to oppose women being treated as equals, people of different races.

They do have that right. No doubt, people will be hurt by this mindset but they still have the right to protest that which they don't agree with.

 

[dawny0826]

for someone who claims to be a follower of christ, it seems as though you are more caught up with the idea that not all of gods children are born in to freedom and are more interested in the idea of controlling circumstances of those that you do not understand or are afraid of. doesn’t your bible say judge not lest you be judged?

Matthew 7
Judging Others

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

This bigotry of yours is quite dangerous indeed because you use your supposed "relationship" with your fairy tale god as justification for your biases disguised as your gods judgment on those you consider WRONG just for being who they are.
shame on you

First of all, you haven't read my original post in its full context. Second, you're exemplifying this brand of hypocrisy that I'm talking about.

I haven't revealed on this thread, my own views on gay marriage. You're making assumptions as to how I feel about the bgltq community.

 

[dawny0826]

that's like saying i don't like you because of the color of your skin and i have the right to vote on your rights...

it is bigotry disguised as neutrality..it's hogwash!!!
you're either for equal rights or not

this is a cowardly stance if you ask me

Respectfully, you've given the same message. You didn't lilke what I posted, so you threw religious scripture at me, accusing me of not loving enough and wrongfully judging others.
You've also accused me of bigotry. You've declared my stance cowardly, yet you don't fully know what my stance is. Do you not see the hypocrisy with this? I mean you no disrespect, but this attitude is precisely what I was getting at in my post.

We don't have the right to demand others to fall in line with our way of thinking. This goes for everyone - not just Christians. We're not the only breed capable of hate and bigotry. My overall point - no one in this argument deserves to be on a self righteous pedestal.

And we're fortunate, as a nation, that people aren't treated worse for their diversity. I'm not in any way denying the discrimination that gbltqs face but when I think of persecution, I think of much worse. I'm sorry, this is just the way I see things.

I'm not going to take offense to that which you've accused me. I wish people would take time to get to know someone a little better before assuming ugly things about them.

 

[dawny0826]

I don't think she actually said any such thing. I can't interpret what she said, she would have to. But in the past Dawny has never been anything but kind.
I didn't hear her say anything that said that she thought that gays didn't deserve any rights.

I fruballed you but I didn't say "thank you". Thank you.

 

[Kathryn]

Respectfully, you've given the same message. You didn't lilke what I posted, so you threw religious scripture at me, accusing me of not loving enough and wrongfully judging others.
You've also accused me of bigotry. You've declared my stance cowardly, yet you don't fully know what my stance is. Do you not see the hypocrisy with this? I mean you no disrespect, but this attitude is precisely what I was getting at in my post.

We don't have the right to demand others to fall in line with our way of thinking. This goes for everyone - not just Christians. We're not the only breed capable of hate and bigotry. My overall point - no one in this argument deserves to be on a self righteous pedestal.

And we're fortunate, as a nation, that people aren't treated worse for their diversity. I'm not in any way denying the discrimination that gbltqs face but when I think of persecution, I think of much worse. I'm sorry, this is just the way I see things.

I'm not going to take offense to that which you've accused me. I wish people would take time to get to know someone a little better before assuming ugly things about them.

Dawny, I just replied to another post on another thread but I think my response supports what you're saying, so I've copied it here:

"See, this overreaction right here on this thread is one thing that ticks people off about some gay rights activists.

I am not opposed to equal rights for LGBTs. In fact, I SUPPORT their rights to be treated equally under the law. I am adamantly opposed to discrimination based on sexual preference or lifestyle. I insist in my home and in my interactions that ALL people be treated with respect.

But somehow it seems - it's never enough, because apparently though I support gay rights and condemn discrimination, I am not saying "You're right." I'm saying "Do what you want - you're an adult," and that is never, NEVER enough for some people.

This shows, in my opinion, hypocrisy in many cases. Many of these same people don't hold the same religious or political beliefs that I do. Do I insist that they change their BELIEFS? No - all I want is for them to treat those who disagree with them with basic respect for their human rights, including the right to disagree - regardless of differences of belief or opinion.

But for some people, respect for human rights is never going to be enough. Some people feel persecuted simply because they know that some people don't believe that their lifestyle is morally right. When it comes to that level of interaction, I think it's unfair and basically NOT RIGHT to insist that others not only respect you, but also agree with you.

This is yet another form of intolerance. "Accept me for what I am" goes both ways."

 

[fantome profane]

And we're fortunate, as a nation, that people aren't treated worse for their diversity. I'm not in any way denying the discrimination that gbltqs face but when I think of persecution, I think of much worse. I'm sorry, this is just the way I see things.

I just want to say be very careful with this kind of reasoning. Every time the issue of racism, sexism, or equality for LGBT etc come up for discussion here (Canada) it seems there is always some schmuck who says something to the effect of “at least it is not as bad here as it is in the States”. This kind or response always ticks me off, not because it is not true (often it is true, sometimes it is not) but because it is not a justification for discrimination.

I am sure you are right that diversity is more accepted in American than it is in places like Iran, but this is not really something to feel proud about. Saying that “it could be worse” is not a proper response to injustice.

 

[Duck]

I just want to say be very careful with this kind of reasoning. Every time the issue of racism, sexism, or equality for LGBT etc come up for discussion here (Canada) it seems there is always some schmuck who says something to the effect of “at least it is not as bad here as it is in the States”. This kind or response always ticks me off, not because it is not true (often it is true, sometimes it is not) but because it is not a justification for discrimination.

I am sure you are right that diversity is more accepted in American than it is in places like Iran, but this is not really something to feel proud about. Saying that “it could be worse” is not a proper response to injustice.

Thank you.

 

[it's_sam]

The only problem I have found with homosexuality is that its supportive of a non-natural love life. Does this mean im afraid the world will become gay and all baby's will be born in tubes? Ofcourse not... but it does take the chance for family away from people that are stuck "not sure" about what they feel. After being traumitized from the internet I know there isnt much that people wont have sex with, im just glad they are sticking with atleast another live human being. The only loss I see is the growth of a family in their image and blood, I consider this a perty large loss since it is one of the best gifts you can recieve in life and usualy the only one that sticks around.

 

[waitasec]

No it's not. You're throwing the word bigotry around too willy nilly. Someone disagrees with you, and suddenly, they are a bigot. That is not acceptable.

if you are judged for having brown eyes,
do you not call that bigotry?

this isn't about disagreements, this is about having prejudice's against someone's natural truth.
"i don't condone their behavior" is saying i don't condone who they are

you are implying their natural preference is made by choice when you throw in the word condone...it is not ANYONES right to condone anyone natural state

 

[Jeremiah]

They do have that right. No doubt, people will be hurt by this mindset but they still have the right to protest that which they don't agree with.

No one is suppressing your right to freedom of expression You still have freedom of expression but so do I, and if I think your expression is harmful, then I have every right to express that. But you do not have the right to vote on the inalienable rights of minorities.

 

[it's_sam]

Ill be happy when we start up a hetero-pride parade, doesnt everyone want to see people half naked rubbing all over eachother in public? We should let heterosexual people get pink and blue bumper stickers and flags for their cars so EVERYONE knows were hetero!