Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[fallingblood]

I think you perceive double standards for homosexuals. I also don't buy your repeated, back-peddling, apologetic posts. If you were truly sincere, then you be more careful with your future wording.

I think you are letting more of yourself slip then you care to. I believe you do this because you are sloppy in thought, which is a result of your naivety and ignorance, in these matters. Until you educate yourself, you will not be able to properly make judgment calls, nor will you be able to express yourself clearly.

But you don't really care about the issue, do you? No, understanding would take real work. You see the repeated threads about religion and homosexuals, and you found that vexatious. So in your ire you made this thread, in order to grouch about it. Mr. Blood, you are a hypocrite.


"But why respond to what I say if you don't care?"

I have my reasons, if you ask nicely, I might share them with you.

What double standards are you speaking of?

I'm quite sure that I am ignorant on the issue to a point. I know little of the history, as I'm not too concerned with it. I don't know everything that is happening, but I believe I have a basic grasp on the situation.

Also, I have been more careful with my wording. I really don't believe I should have to clarify what I'm saying to such an extent, but I have as I learned that if I didn't, what I said would be misrepresented. I can show many examples of where I've been misrepresented.

As for educating myself, I did take the effort to read the articles that you posted. I don't think they were all completely unbiased, but I read them with an open mind. Will I ever know the matter completely? No, because I'm not a homosexual. And really, I don't have the time or want to know everything about the subject that there is.

As for grouching, it has only ever been about one specific group in the homosexual community. A minority group in that community. As for homosexuals in general, I have no problem with and I believe they should fight for their rights.

But no matter what I say, it's not going to change your opinion. You have a pre-concieved notion about me. And as you've stated, you don't care what I believe or say.

 

[Jeremiah]

What double standards are you speaking of?

I'm quite sure that I am ignorant on the issue to a point. I know little of the history, as I'm not too concerned with it. I don't know everything that is happening, but I believe I have a basic grasp on the situation.

Also, I have been more careful with my wording. I really don't believe I should have to clarify what I'm saying to such an extent, but I have as I learned that if I didn't, what I said would be misrepresented. I can show many examples of where I've been misrepresented.

As for educating myself, I did take the effort to read the articles that you posted. I don't think they were all completely unbiased, but I read them with an open mind. Will I ever know the matter completely? No, because I'm not a homosexual. And really, I don't have the time or want to know everything about the subject that there is.

As for grouching, it has only ever been about one specific group in the homosexual community. A minority group in that community. As for homosexuals in general, I have no problem with and I believe they should fight for their rights.

But no matter what I say, it's not going to change your opinion. You have a pre-concieved notion about me. And as you've stated, you don't care what I believe or say.

"What double standards are you speaking of? "

Figure it out for yourself, I shouldn't have to clarify what I am saying to such an extent.


"I don't think they were all completely unbiased"

What did you find bias? Quotes and links, please.

 

[waitasec]

The term fundy is offensive. Now, them calling you a sinner may be offensive as well, but it doesn't give you the right to be offensive towards them. The term fundy is meant to be derogatory, so I don't see why you choose to use it accept to voice an intolerance.

I've never stated that gay people should not stand up to bigotry and hatred. I would object if they stood up by spreading bigotry and hatred, but that is their right as well (to a point).

My first point was that not all Christians persecute or even hate homosexuals. That is was a minority. My second point is that some homosexuals exaggerate the extent of the problem. I've stated my intentions a variety of times.

Now, I do accept the right of fundamentalist Christians to be bigots (to a point). I don't approve or condone their actions, but I believe they have a right to their ideas. They have the right to freedom of speech. They have the right to protest. If they try to force their bigotry on others, then that is overstepping their rights and should be fought. But to accept their rights is counter-productive and hypocritical.

great lets perpetuate ignorance
ignorance leeds to progress
ignorance leads to liberty

bigots had the right to BELIEVE blacks were not capable to be intelligent

pave the way for ignorance...the one true way!!!

what a joke

"If they try to force their bigotry on others, then that is overstepping their rights and should be fought."

well how if bigots have the right to tell people what is right?

 

[fallingblood]

great lets perpetuate ignorance
ignorance leeds to progress
ignorance leads to liberty

bigots had the right to BELIEVE blacks were not capable to be intelligent

pave the way for ignorance...the one true way!!!

what a joke

"If they try to force their bigotry on others, then that is overstepping their rights and should be fought."

well how if bigots have the right to tell people what is right?

Are you suggesting that bigots shouldn't have the right to freedom of speech and the freedom to believe what they want?

I never said we should, or suggested we should, perpetuate ignorance. But people do have the right to be ignorant. To not allow that is intolerance.

 

[waitasec]

Are you suggesting that bigots shouldn't have the right to freedom of speech and the freedom to believe what they want?

I never said we should, or suggested we should, perpetuate ignorance. But people do have the right to be ignorant. To not allow that is intolerance.

of course they have the right to make fools of themselves
but they don't have the right to VOTE on inalienable rights nor should anyone ever assume they have power over a minority..."one nation undivided with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL"

 

[6Michael6Bennett6]

Yes, they do. They think they are justified because of their interpretations of the meaningless book of fairy tales (more often referred to as the bible) says that homosexuality is a sin. Instead of "hating the sin and not the people", they prosecute the people; its like using poison to kill a disease, you kill the disease but may kill the person also. Replace kill with prosecute and disease with homosexuality, and take out the poison part. Then you get: "its like prosecuting homosexuality, you prosecute homosexuality but may prosecute the person also." Prosecution for any belief is wrong.

 

[it's_sam]

of course they have the right to make fools of themselves
but they don't have the right to VOTE on inalienable rights nor should anyone ever assume they have power over a minority..."one nation undivided with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL"

ya all means all, both sides are included... ALL means they do have the right to vote because that is their freedom of speech and innaliable right. Just because you deemed them stupid doesnt mean they are void of existing in the rights of equality.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Here's the thing - Christians might have a problem with the fact that I'm a Buddhist, but I don't see signs or bumper stickers urging a vote toward some proposition askng to "protect Christianity" from us uppity Buddhists.

They may also have a big problem with my and my husband's polyamory. Any push to vote to "protect monogamy" in the voting booths? Nope. None.

The thing is (once again), I couldn't give a rats *** over what Christians believe, feel, think, or talk about. They can even go on a soapbox saying how horrible I personally am. I've had my professional and my personal reputation BOTH applauded AND insulted in the press. Honestly? Big friggin' deal. They can say what they want - and it really is free publicity.

But, again, call for action to "protect" some arbitrary institution or belief system by voting against my rights and you've just thrown down against a woman who isn't afraid of fighting nasty.

Thank you. Thank you. :curtsy:

Now, fallingblood...I appreciate your willingness to look at your message from another person's POV. I am asking you to take yet one more step toward understanding the ire you see from outspoken queers on this forum.

It's just one moment....on this very forum, there have been members who are not only shrugging off, but SUPPORTIVE of execution for homosexuals, and have been outspoken about it. Take one minute to understand that reading that is alarming, sickening, frightening....far more than simply insulting. In other words, it isn't that much of a leap to visualize these same people more than happy to watch someone like me being tortured and killed. I'm also not the only one who has noticed. I suspect you're seeing the reactions to these mindsets, but I take issue with your assertion that we're "blowing it out of proportion."

 

[it's_sam]

Here's the thing - Christians might have a problem with the fact that I'm a Buddhist, but I don't see signs or bumper stickers urging a vote toward some proposition askng to "protect Christianity" from us uppity Buddhists.

They may also have a big problem with my and my husband's polyamory. Any push to vote to "protect monogamy" in the voting booths? Nope. None.

The thing is (once again), I couldn't give a rats *** over what Christians believe, feel, think, or talk about. They can even go on a soapbox saying how horrible I personally am. I've had my professional and my personal reputation BOTH applauded AND insulted in the press. Honestly? Big friggin' deal. They can say what they want - and it really is free publicity.

But, again, call for action to "protect" some arbitrary institution or belief system by voting against my rights and you've just thrown down against a woman who isn't afraid of fighting nasty.

Thank you. Thank you. :curtsy:

Now, fallingblood...I appreciate your willingness to look at your message from another person's POV. I am asking you to take yet one more step toward understanding the ire you see from outspoken queers on this forum.

It's just one moment....on this very forum, there have been members who are not only shrugging off, but SUPPORTIVE of execution for homosexuals, and have been outspoken about it. Take one minute to understand that reading that is alarming, sickening, frightening....far more than simply insulting. In other words, it isn't that much of a leap to visualize these same people more than happy to watch someone like me being tortured and killed. I'm also not the only one who has noticed. I suspect you're seeing the reactions to these mindsets, but I take issue with your assertion that we're "blowing it out of proportion."

God has warriors for a reason and it isnt running around doing human bidding.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

God has warriors for a reason and it isnt running around doing human bidding.

Meaning what?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I believe people should be multifaceted. It should be possible to be true to your religious beliefs AND be a good American.

A good American would want all people to have the same rights.

What this country lacks is tolerance for others.

Tolerance for the queers.

Tolerance for the fundies.

We are a diverse nation, it's high time we acted like one.

 

[fallingblood]

of course they have the right to make fools of themselves
but they don't have the right to VOTE on inalienable rights nor should anyone ever assume they have power over a minority..."one nation undivided with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL"

I agree, and have stated such: "If they try to force their bigotry on others, then that is overstepping their rights and should be fought." We are in agreement.

 

[fallingblood]

Yes, they do. They think they are justified because of their interpretations of the meaningless book of fairy tales (more often referred to as the bible) says that homosexuality is a sin. Instead of "hating the sin and not the people", they prosecute the people; its like using poison to kill a disease, you kill the disease but may kill the person also. Replace kill with prosecute and disease with homosexuality, and take out the poison part. Then you get: "its like prosecuting homosexuality, you prosecute homosexuality but may prosecute the person also." Prosecution for any belief is wrong.

That simply isn't true. Some, Christians, some being the key word, persecute homosexuals. And as we are seeing now, more and more Christians are supporting the rights of homosexuals. We have Churches now that are allowing openly gay ministers. And saying the Bible is a meaningless book of fairy tales, that is showing intolerance as well. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[fallingblood]

ya all means all, both sides are included... ALL means they do have the right to vote because that is their freedom of speech and innaliable right. Just because you deemed them stupid doesnt mean they are void of existing in the rights of equality.

I think that is stepping over the line though. Voting to take away someone's rights is not protected under the freedom of speech.

One's rights do not supersede another person's rights.

 

[Reverend Rick]

And saying the Bible is a meaningless book of fairy tales, that is showing intolerance as well. Just thought I'd point that out.

:clap

 

[waitasec]

I've never stated that gay people should not stand up to bigotry and hatred. I would object if they stood up by spreading bigotry and hatred, but that is their right as well (to a point).

Now, I do accept the right of fundamentalist Christians to be bigots (to a point). I don't approve or condone their actions, but I believe they have a right to their ideas. They have the right to freedom of speech. They have the right to protest. If they try to force their bigotry on others, then that is overstepping their rights and should be fought. But to accept their rights is counter-productive and hypocritical.

I agree, and have stated such: "If they WHO try to force their bigotry on others, then that is overstepping their rights and should be fought." We are in agreement.

i don't hink you know what you are saying
who are you referring to?
and what do you mean to a point...bigotry is intolerable. bigotry is hate. bigotry is fear...how can that be tolerated to a point?

are you afraid to offend the status quo?

are you confident in your self dignity?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

And saying the Bible is a meaningless book of fairy tales, that is showing intolerance as well. Just thought I'd point that out.

No - burning bibles, or beating people up, or discriminating against them because they read the bible, is intolerant. Saying it's a book of fairy tales is expressing an opinion on the content.

 

[waitasec]

ya all means all, both sides are included... ALL means they do have the right to vote because that is their freedom of speech and innaliable right. Just because you deemed them stupid doesnt mean they are void of existing in the rights of equality.

so people had the right to vote against equal rights of other human beings

lame

 

[Jeremiah]

That simply isn't true. Some, Christians, some being the key word, persecute homosexuals. And as we are seeing now, more and more Christians are supporting the rights of homosexuals. We have Churches now that are allowing openly gay ministers. And saying the Bible is a meaningless book of fairy tales, that is showing intolerance as well. Just thought I'd point that out.

"And as we are seeing now, more and more Christians are supporting the rights of homosexuals."

Yes there is progress, but don't forget the majority still voted against our right to marry. I wonder how many vote against our rights, due to religious beliefs about marriage.


"And saying the Bible is a meaningless book of fairy tales, that is showing intolerance as well."

How is that intolerance? One does not have to respect the Bible to be tolerant of it. I personally believe the Bible has philosophical value but I agree it is a collection of fairy tales.

Btw, you made the claim that I posted bias information, I am still waiting for you to show me where. I want my info to be as objective as possible, show me where it is bias, please.

 

[waitasec]

I believe people should be multifaceted. It should be possible to be true to your religious beliefs AND be a good American.

A good American would want all people to have the same rights.

What this country lacks is tolerance for others.

Tolerance for the queers.

Tolerance for the fundies.

We are a diverse nation, it's high time we acted like one.

if we BELIEVE all men are created EQUAL
then we all have confidence in the notion that one persons belief does not trump another persons inalienable rights