Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[fallingblood]

And yet you only go out of your way to criticize what you consider to be the excesses of gay people, while the excesses of the Christian churches have demonstrably done far greater harm.

Correction, I've only criticized what I considered to be the excesses of a group within the homosexual community in this thread. Out of this thread, I have criticized various Christian churches on a range of topics.

 

[Jeremiah]

As a liberal Christian, and a engaged straight ally, I apologize for all who have misused God's and Christ's names to advance hatred, ignorance, and exclusion.

That is very thoughtful of you.

 

[fallingblood]

Actions speak louder than words. If you say you believe one thing, but your actions contradict your words, why should I believe you?

Because you may be misinterpreting their actions. There are a variety of factors that have to be taken into consideration.

It's not my job to prove your allegations false. Prove they're true.

I have proven them to be true. The exaggerations that I posted have been proven to be exaggerations even in this thread. If you're not willing to prove them wrong now, then it seems clear to me that my opinion is correct.

 

[Jeremiah]

Okay.

I owe you frublas for that one.

 

[Smoke]

I have proven them to be true. The exaggerations that I posted have been proven to be exaggerations even in this thread. If you're not willing to prove them wrong now, then it seems clear to me that my opinion is correct.

You have not proven them to be true. Furthermore, you asked for evidence that the majority of Christians persecute gay people, saying that if provided with such evidence you would gladly admit you were wrong. Having been shown that the majority of Christians belong to anti-gay churches, you have failed to honor your promise. I infer the absence of both honor and honest intent on your part, and my interaction with you is therefore at an end.

 

[sojourner]

As a liberal Christian, and a engaged straight ally, I apologize for all who have misused God's and Christ's names to advance hatred, ignorance, and exclusion.

What he said. Frubals.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I keep hearing about how horrible Christians are for persecuting homosexuals. That Christians hate homosexuals, and that Christians view homosexuals as abominations. However, is that really the case?

I believe that it is only a minority of Christians who view homosexuals as abominations. I would admit that many do believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that is far from being an abomination.

Part of it is how we receive the news. It's not news that a Christian congregation accepts GLBT folks. But when a hateful Christian does something stupid against homosexuality, the news folks want to locate the most extreme homophopic ******* that they can find to give their fanatical hatred.

And then the news tells us that so-and-so is the pastor of a church with thousands of people (Falwell), the head of some large Christian organisation (Dobson), or the higher-ups in a denomenation. And therefore these homophobes are presented as accurate representatives of Christianity.

 

[Duck]

Part of it is how we receive the news. It's not news that a Christian congregation accepts GLBT folks. But when a hateful Christian does something stupid against homosexuality, the news folks want to locate the most extreme homophopic ******* that they can find to give their fanatical hatred.

And then the news tells us that so-and-so is the pastor of a church with thousands of people (Falwell), the head of some large Christian organisation (Dobson), or the higher-ups in a denomenation. And therefore these homophobes are presented as accurate representatives of Christianity.

Combine that with some personal experiences with casual homophobia (gay jokes, harassment, or listening to some jerk spout off about them damn dirty homos on the metro), and perhaps some not so casual experiences with homophobia (having your marriage rights stripped, serving in the military under DADT, being the victim of violence) and voila! one assumes the worst and reads everything in a negative light. When one remarks about these things, one is 'blowing things out of proportion' or 'exaggerating' one's personal experiences. Which garners

"little compassion for them as a whole because of that portion that continually cries homophobia and persecution. "

From people who otherwise protest that they are in favor of equality.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'm using the definition of the word exaggerate: represent (something) as being larger, greater, better, or worse than it really is. There is no bar that I'm setting.

If someone could prove that in fact the claims that I believe to be exaggerations are in fact what actually happens, then I would retract that belief. However, no one has been able to show me that they are not in fact exaggerations. If the people who made these claims came forward and stated that they were just generalizations, and were not true for all, then I would retract my statement.

However, the opposite has been the case. We have one member here who claims that every single fundamentalist Christian act like the individuals of the Westboro Baptist Church. That is an exaggeration and simply untrue. There is a member here who claims that homosexuals don't have any rights. There is no reason to believe he is making generalizations as he has over and over again claimed that he is speaking the truth. In that case then, there is no doubt in my mind that he is exaggerating.

I'm not setting a bar here. I'm not saying that there is a level of persecution that is alright. What I'm saying is that some homosexuals, a minority, are making gross exaggerations which I believe detracts from the actual problem. And since it seems like these individuals seem to be more vocal, it can eventually prove troublesome to the actual struggle for gay rights.

"However, the opposite has been the case. We have one member here who claims that every single fundamentalist Christian act like the individuals of the Westboro Baptist Church. That is an exaggeration and simply untrue. There is a member here who claims that homosexuals don't have any rights. There is no reason to believe he is making generalizations as he has over and over again claimed that he is speaking the truth. In that case then, there is no doubt in my mind that he is exaggerating."

Where? I am looking for these post and I don't see them.

I read back that you got the fundamentalist thing from a different thread? If that is the case, find it and quote it or shut-up about it.

I found this.....

"The fact of the matter is, gay people will never have what I would call rights until we can walk down the street without fear and hate toward us."

Is this what you equate with: "There is a member here who claims that homosexuals don't have any rights"?


I find that fact that you are summarizing this stuff, in your own words, underhanded and sloppy. Quote the posts you are talking about.

 

[fallingblood]

You have not proven them to be true. Furthermore, you asked for evidence that the majority of Christians persecute gay people, saying that if provided with such evidence you would gladly admit you were wrong. Having been shown that the majority of Christians belong to anti-gay churches, you have failed to honor your promise. I infer the absence of both honor and honest intent on your part, and my interaction with you is therefore at an end.

You did not show that. You made a claim, and did not support it. And anti-gay does not mean they persecute homosexuals. Also, being in an anti-gay church doesn't mean they are anti-gay.

And I have proven them to be true. That they are exaggerations. Why won't you admit that some homosexuals do exaggerate the extent of the problem?

 

[fallingblood]

Where? I am looking for these post and I don't see them.

I read back that you got the fundamentalist thing from a different thread? If that is the case, find it and quote it or shut-up about it.

I found this.....

"The fact of the matter is, gay people will never have what I would call rights until we can walk down the street without fear and hate toward us."

Is this what you equate with: "There is a member here who claims that homosexuals don't have any rights"?


I find that fact that you are summarizing this stuff, in your own words, underhanded and sloppy. Quote the posts you are talking about.

Here is one example of the fundamentalist who does not hate gays: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2100664-post26.html

Also, if it is claimed that gays don't have anything one would consider rights, how is that underhanded to say that he doesn't believe homosexuals have rights?

 

[fallingblood]

Combine that with some personal experiences with casual homophobia (gay jokes, harassment, or listening to some jerk spout off about them damn dirty homos on the metro), and perhaps some not so casual experiences with homophobia (having your marriage rights stripped, serving in the military under DADT, being the victim of violence) and voila! one assumes the worst and reads everything in a negative light. When one remarks about these things, one is 'blowing things out of proportion' or 'exaggerating' one's personal experiences. Which garners
From people who otherwise protest that they are in favor of equality.

That is very deceptive. I have never stated someone exaggerated one's personal experience. And I've never stated that when one remarks about the harassment they feel, that they are blowing things out of proportion. I've made my claim very clear, I've pointed out what I think is being blown our of proportion and what are exaggerations.

 

[Jeremiah]

Here is one example of the fundamentalist who does not hate gays: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2100664-post26.html

Also, if it is claimed that gays don't have anything one would consider rights, how is that underhanded to say that he doesn't believe homosexuals have rights?

"Here is one example of the fundamentalist who does not hate gays"

Why are you giving me this? :areyoucra

I asked for the quote where you claimed this was said: "We have one member here who claims that every single fundamentalist Christian act like the individuals of the Westboro Baptist Church" (Fallingblood).

"Also, if it is claimed that gays don't have anything one would consider rights, how is that underhanded to say that he doesn't believe homosexuals have rights?"

Because it he makes it clear that he is using "rights" subjectively.

Why did you feel it was necessary to rewrite what he said, in your words, instead of just directly quoting him?

 

[fallingblood]

"Here is one example of the fundamentalist who does not hate gays"

Why are you giving me this? :areyoucra

I asked for the quote where you claimed this was said: "We have one member here who claims that every single fundamentalist Christian act like the individuals of the Westboro Baptist Church" (Fallingblood).

"Also, if it is claimed that gays don't have anything one would consider rights, how is that underhanded to say that he doesn't believe homosexuals have rights?"

Because it he makes it clear that he is using "rights" subjectively.

Why did you feel it was necessary to rewrite what he said, in your words, instead of just directly quoting him?

Honestly, I didn't feel like wading through the pages of this thread to find his exact wording.

I misread your request about the post to the fundamentalist Christians. Here is it. It was posted by Senedjem: That is correct. I said fundamentalists, and I stand by what I said. I've yet to see any fundamentalist who doesn't have a Westboro Baptist attitude toward LGBT people. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2109858-post425.html

 

[Jeremiah]

Honestly, I didn't feel like wading through the pages of this thread to find his exact wording.

I misread your request about the post to the fundamentalist Christians. Here is it. It was posted by Senedjem: That is correct. I said fundamentalists, and I stand by what I said. I've yet to see any fundamentalist who doesn't have a Westboro Baptist attitude toward LGBT people. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2109858-post425.html

"I've yet to see any fundamentalist who doesn't have a Westboro Baptist attitude toward LGBT people."

Fallingblood, can you disprove this statement? Mind you it says "I've yet to see", it certainly does not say, as you suggested it did, "every single fundamentalist Christian".

 

[Jeremiah]

I think we have just seen Fallingblood, take things out of context, misrepresent it and over exaggerate.

 

[fallingblood]

"I've yet to see any fundamentalist who doesn't have a Westboro Baptist attitude toward LGBT people."

Fallingblood, can you disprove this statement? Mind you it says "I've yet to see", it certainly does not say, as you suggested it did, "every single fundamentalist Christian".

Actually, Senedjem has stated very clearly that he believes all fundamentalists are this way.

And yes, I can disprove this statement. I've already shown one case of a fundamentalist who doesn't have the mindset.

 

[fallingblood]

I think we have just seen Fallingblood, take things out of context, misrepresent it and over exaggerate.

I don't think I have. I think I've supported my opinion, that some homosexuals over exaggerate the problem. I've shown what I believe to be exaggerations.

This is my resignation from this thread though. We have 50 some pages, and honestly, I'm sick of defending myself and my position. This thread has shown one thing if nothing else. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals are intolerant to a point.

There is exaggeration on both sides. If you want to deny that, fine. But it doesn't mean it isn't there.

What I am surprised at though is that some here seem as if they are advocating the idea of "by any means necessary." And I'm talking about both sides.

 

[Jeremiah]

Actually, Senedjem has stated very clearly that he believes all fundamentalists are this way.

And yes, I can disprove this statement. I've already shown one case of a fundamentalist who doesn't have the mindset.

"Actually, Senedjem has stated very clearly that he believes all fundamentalists are this way."

Summon the post, please. You have already proven yourself to be untrustworthy.

"And yes, I can disprove this statement. I've already shown one case of a fundamentalist who doesn't have the mindset"

No you can't, as he said, "I've yet to see", this is specific to his personal interactions with fundamentalist.

--


Regardless, how do you justify your contortion to what he said?

This "I've yet to see any fundamentalist who doesn't have a Westboro Baptist attitude toward LGBT people." does not equate into this, "We have one member here who claims that every single fundamentalist Christian act like the individuals of the Westboro Baptist Church"

If that statment is your source, then you are take things out of context, misrepresenting it and over exaggerating it.

 

[Smoke]

Why did you feel it was necessary to rewrite what he said, in your words, instead of just directly quoting him?

I think we all know why.