Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[Smoke]

There you go again; that sure didn't take very long. I never said that he didn't have the freedom of speech

I know you don't pay attention to what anybody else says; do you even pay attention to what you say yourself? You said fundamentalists have the right to be offensive. You said gay people don't. You've said so repeatedly.

 

[Smoke]

There is another issue: Parents who reject their own children because of sexual preference. I have known people personally (Including a roommate I had in the Navy)who were disowned by their parents. I find that very, very sad.

There are plenty of them. Between 20 and 40 percent of homeless youth in the US are gay or transgender.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'm using the definition of the word exaggerate: represent (something) as being larger, greater, better, or worse than it really is. There is no bar that I'm setting.

If someone could prove that in fact the claims that I believe to be exaggerations are in fact what actually happens, then I would retract that belief. However, no one has been able to show me that they are not in fact exaggerations. If the people who made these claims came forward and stated that they were just generalizations, and were not true for all, then I would retract my statement.

However, the opposite has been the case. We have one member here who claims that every single fundamentalist Christian act like the individuals of the Westboro Baptist Church. That is an exaggeration and simply untrue. There is a member here who claims that homosexuals don't have any rights. There is no reason to believe he is making generalizations as he has over and over again claimed that he is speaking the truth. In that case then, there is no doubt in my mind that he is exaggerating.

I'm not setting a bar here. I'm not saying that there is a level of persecution that is alright. What I'm saying is that some homosexuals, a minority, are making gross exaggerations which I believe detracts from the actual problem. And since it seems like these individuals seem to be more vocal, it can eventually prove troublesome to the actual struggle for gay rights.

Speaking of gross exaggerations, check this one out.....

"What I'm saying is that some homosexuals, a minority, are making gross exaggerations which I believe detracts from the actual problem. And since it seems like these individuals seem to be more vocal, it can eventually prove troublesome to the actual struggle for gay rights." - Fallingblood



But hey, let's let bygones be bygones, here I wrote a poem in your tribute.

At last Mr.Blood lays his final card and all is reveled.
He does not criticize us for fighting for our rights.
He does not criticize us for standing up to them.
He does not criticize us for speaking our mind.
No, Mr. Blood criticizes us for being human.

​

 

[Jeremiah]

The most ironic thing about this entire thread, is that Fallingblood is doing exactly what he is railing against.

 

[Smoke]

The most ironic thing about this entire thread, is that Fallingblood is doing exactly what he is railing against.

Sometimes the Bible says some rather good things:

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.​

 

[fallingblood]

It certainly is. The VAST majority of Christians belong to churches that teach exactly that. Everyone knows that there's a minority who are exceptions, but some people seem to be unaware of the extent to which those churches account for only a very small minority of Christians.

I'm not afraid, but I'm aware.

Can you give me some statistics on just how many Christians persecute homosexuals? I am honestly curious about this. If you can show me that the majority of Christians do persecute homosexuality, I will gladly admit that I'm wrong.

 

[fallingblood]

I am not over sensitive, even though, you would prefer to stereotype me as such; if any thing, I am too numb. Rather, it is that you are too unsympathetic. Given it's context, you have implied much by the thread title, more, it seems, then you care to know.

I admit that my word choice was poor at best. I honestly did not think it through when I wrote the title.

 

[fallingblood]

Of course you can accept it. Who are you trying to kid? It's exactly what you've been doing yourself on this very thread.

I accept their right to do so. I never stated that I didn't accept it. I said I didn't support it. And no, that is not what I've been doing on this thread.

 

[fallingblood]

Page 40 of you continuing to whine and moan about gay people and air your petty prejudice, and people responding to you. Maybe you're right. Maybe people should just ******* ignore you.

It's funny that you would accuse me of being prejudice. As you are showing the same thing.

 

[Smoke]

Can you give me some statistics on just how many Christians persecute homosexuals? I am honestly curious about this. If you can show me that the majority of Christians do persecute homosexuality, I will gladly admit that I'm wrong.

The majority of Christians are Roman Catholics, who -- whatever they say they think about gay people -- support a viciously anti-gay organization with their money, their time, and their presence -- or at a bare minimum, their identity and allegiance. Add to that majority the many Orthodox, Protestants, and Mormons who belong to anti-gay churches, and you have an overwhelming majority.

Even those churches that are not as viciously anti-gay as the Roman Catholic Church usually have anti-gay policies. How many churches ordain gay clergy? How many celebrate gay marriages? What percentage of Christians attend such churches?

How often have you heard "moderate" Christians say, "I'm not anti-gay, but ... "

 

[fallingblood]

You seem to see it that way now. But let's clarify: you've been a Jew, and a Muslim, and a fundamentalist Christian? And you want to claim persecution on all three grounds. That's just great. Especially since you think fundamentalists are being persecuted when people criticize their anti-gay bigotry.

Can you prove that I see it that way now? Only if you take what I said out of context. And is there anything wrong about practicing different religions? I would say no.

And day I say that fundamentalists are being persecuted in any regard to anti-gay bigotry?

 

[fallingblood]

I know you don't pay attention to what anybody else says; do you even pay attention to what you say yourself? You said fundamentalists have the right to be offensive. You said gay people don't. You've said so repeatedly.

I don't pay attention? You are showing right here you aren't paying attention. Show me where I said that gay people don't have the right to be offensive.

 

[Smoke]

I don't pay attention? You are showing right here you aren't paying attention. Show me where I said that gay people don't have the right to be offensive.

Okay.

The term fundy is offensive. Now, them calling you a sinner may be offensive as well, but it doesn't give you the right to be offensive towards them.

 

[fallingblood]

The majority of Christians are Roman Catholics, who -- whatever they say they think about gay people -- support a viciously anti-gay organization with their money, their time, and their presence -- or at a bare minimum, their identity and allegiance. Add to that majority the many Orthodox, Protestants, and Mormons who belong to anti-gay churches, and you have an overwhelming majority.

Even those churches that are not as viciously anti-gay as the Roman Catholic Church usually have anti-gay policies. How many churches ordain gay clergy? How many celebrate gay marriages? What percentage of Christians attend such churches?

How often have you heard "moderate" Christians say, "I'm not anti-gay, but ... "

Can you give me a source or are you just going to tell me that you know what they mean even though they state otherwise?

Also, would you be willing to actually prove that I'm wrong by showing that what I consider exaggerations to be false? I've posted the exaggerations I'm speaking of. Prove that they are false.

Oh, and just so you know, the largest Lutheran denomination in the United States allows openly gay ministers. They are the seventh largest denomination in the world.

 

[fallingblood]

Okay.

Context. Someone calling you a name doesn't give you the right to call them a name. What gives you the right to do so is that you have freedom of speech. I didn't say that they couldn't be offensive. But one wrong doesn't give another person the right to wrong that first person. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I've actually stated in other places that all groups have the right to their beliefs, to be bigots, etc.

 

[Smoke]

Can you give me a source or are you just going to tell me that you know what they mean even though they state otherwise?

Actions speak louder than words. If you say you believe one thing, but your actions contradict your words, why should I believe you?

Also, would you be willing to actually prove that I'm wrong by showing that what I consider exaggerations to be false? I've posted the exaggerations I'm speaking of. Prove that they are false.

It's not my job to prove your allegations false. Prove they're true.

Oh, and just so you know, the largest Lutheran denomination in the United States allows openly gay ministers. They are the seventh largest denomination in the world.

No, they're not. They may be the seventh-largest Christian denomination in the United States, although many churches have defected to other groups since they started allowing gay clergy. They only began to allow openly gay ministers about a year ago, and the decision has been highly controversial. Only about a third of their clergy support marriage equality, a percentage that makes the ELCA relatively liberal for a Christian denomination, but still means that 63% don't support equality.

But even supposing the ELCA were unambiguously and unanimously welcoming toward gay people, its members only amount to around one-fifth of one percent of Christians worldwide.

 

[uu_sage]

As a liberal Christian, and a engaged straight ally, I apologize for all who have misused God's and Christ's names to advance hatred, ignorance, and exclusion.

 

[Smoke]

Context. Someone calling you a name doesn't give you the right to call them a name. What gives you the right to do so is that you have freedom of speech. I didn't say that they couldn't be offensive. But one wrong doesn't give another person the right to wrong that first person. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I've actually stated in other places that all groups have the right to their beliefs, to be bigots, etc.

And yet you only go out of your way to criticize what you consider to be the excesses of gay people, while the excesses of the Christian churches have demonstrably done far greater harm.

 

[Jeremiah]

Can you give me some statistics on just how many Christians persecute homosexuals? I am honestly curious about this. If you can show me that the majority of Christians do persecute homosexuality, I will gladly admit that I'm wrong.

" If you can show me that the majority of Christians do persecute homosexuality"

I doubt it was the non-Christians that gave the majority vote against our right to marry. And, as far as I am concerned, voting against gay rights is not only persecution, it is also affront to me as a patriot, who believes in liberty and equality for all.

73% of the general public in the United States in 2001 stated that they knew someone who is gay, lesbian, or bisexual.[101] This is the result of a steady increase from 1983 when there were 24%, 43% in 1993, 55% in 1998, or 62% in 2000. The percentage of the general public who say there is more acceptance of LGB people in 2001 than before was 64%. Acceptance was measured on many different levels — 87% of the general public would shop at a store owned by someone who is gay or lesbian but only 46% of the general public would attend a church or synagogue where a minister or rabbi is openly gay or lesbian. 51% of the general public think that "homosexual behavior" is morally wrong (38% "completely agreeing" it is morally wrong and 13% "somewhat agreeing"). Males and people over 65 years old are more likely to think it is wrong. Among people who don't know someone who is LGB, 61% think the behavior is wrong. Broken down by religion, 60% of evangelical Christians think that it is wrong, whereas 11% with no religious affiliation are against it. 57% of the general public think that gays and lesbians experience a lot of prejudice and discrimination, making it the group most believed to experience prejudice and discrimination. (African Americans come in second at 42%).[102]
In terms of support of public policies, according to the same 2001 study, 76% of the general public think that there should be laws to protect gay and lesbian people from job discrimination, 74% from housing discrimination, 73% for inheritance rights, 70% support health and other employee benefits for domestic partners, 68% support social security benefits, and 56% support GL people openly serving in the military. 73% favor sexual orientation being included in the hate crimes statutes. 39% support same-sex marriage, while 47% support civil unions, and 46% support adoption rights.
A separate study shows that, in the United States, the younger generation is more supportive of gay rights than average. For example, a Kaiser Family Foundation study found that 18–24 year olds strongly supported gay rights in 2001. However, polling data also shows a trend among Americans in general toward rejection of homosexual-specific legal expansion of rights, especially same-sex marriage. A poll commissioned by CNN/USA Today Gallup in 2005 asked the question, "Do you think marriages between homosexuals should or should not be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages?" 56% said "should not be valid", while 39% said "should be valid", and 5% were unsure.[103]

Societal attitudes toward homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jeremiah]

I'll keep looking for one more specific for religion, I use to have a link but lost it.